Hebrews Chapter 13
AI-generated summary
Central Claim: Hebrews 13:8 ("Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever") does not support Trinitarian theology. The passage refers to the *mortal man Jesus of Nazareth*, not an eternally pre-existent divine being. Yeshua became Jesus Christ at incarnation; he was not Jesus Christ "in the beginning."
Biblical Basis: The hosts argue that John 1:1 ("In the beginning was the Word") proves the Word—not Jesus—was eternal. Jesus received the name Yeshua at birth. If the author meant to affirm eternal Christ, he would have said "the Word" remained the same, not "Jesus Christ."
Yeshuan Perspective: This reflects Yeshuan fulfilled eschatology's rejection of pre-incarnational Christology. The passage emphasizes Christ's present character and faithfulness *after* incarnation, supporting subjective faith in the risen, named Yeshua rather than abstract metaphysical claims about eternal sonship. The discussion prioritizes contextual biblical interpretation over traditional Trinitarian assumptions.
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Hebrews Chapter 13 | I Don't Get The Bible by Yeshuans
Transcripts:
I'm not getting the Bible podcast. I'm Delaney. I'm Sean. I feed my child in Vaissi. But we are going to read the last chapter of Hebrew. Yeah. Chapter 13. So I suggest reading or watching chapter 12 episodes because it was a really amazing chapter. E, so important for the yeshwan perspective. So it continues.
May brotherly love continue. So he tells the Hebrews in the previous verses to wait until this shaking arrives. So and having patience and all these Tribulations, yeah, okay So may brotherly love continue until then Yeah Because That at that moment He would have achieved the unity of the faith And the wife would have been taken until then Okay Item Don't forget to entertain strangers, because that's how some get OGD.
Angel without knowing it. What does this mean? What that means is that, and this is a belief that some people still have today, is that when you have a stranger and you meet them and they say, “Can you help me?” ", he says "Be kind to them, because you could be talking to an angel without realizing it.
" Oh my God ! I feel like I've had some of these experiences. I feel like I was with you when you went through these experiences. It's weird, huh? Yeah. They say, “Okay. Yeah, they are. » And that's what he says. D. Really weird experience. All right. You remember. Do you think? Do you think this continues? I do.
All right. Point. I think so much that the celestial kingdom is there, only with help, and even this one sees angels. She is looking at them right now on the ceiling. But I'm weird that way. And. Good. I think babies have access to this realm. Wow, that's interesting. The thing is, Earth and celestial economies have been shaken.
Yeah. So everything is scattered and maybe there are angels. Maybe I don't start praying to them and talking to them. Yeah. Maybe I don't start praying to them and talking to them. Yeah. Remember those who remember those in chains as being bound with them and those who suffer in adversity as also being yourself in the body.
This is such a good one. Final note to tell them how to behave while waiting for the screening to arrive And he says that when someone suffers, suffer with them When someone is in jail, go to jail with them Have a heart for others completely Brotherly love, yeah, yeah, don't you Talk about this In your teaching Marriage is honorable to all and the marriage bed free from defilement But whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
» Be careful! What is the meaning of this sentence? I don't know. Paul told them. Listen, it's better that you don't get married, be like me. But if you can't stop having sex, it's better to get married than to burn. Um, and so yeah, do it. GOOD. Yeah, do it right. Do it well if you want to do it. Let your conduct be free from avarice, and be content with what you have.
For he said, I will not leave you nor forsake you. Therefore we can say with confidence, The Lord is my helper and I will not fear anything that men can do to me. Remember your leaders who spoke the word of God to you and whose faith was consistent with the end of their conduct. They speak of those whom God has put in place for the Church, to equip the saints, the pastors, the evangelists, the teachers.
Listen to them, that's what he says. All right. Point. Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever. Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ. Point. The same yesterday, today and forever. Yeah. What is this ? Question mark. A trinitarian. They will use this. Yeah. But remember he writes after he became jesus christ yeah and he mentioned as jesus christ because that was his name and he has since left so he says that that's how they can identify as jesus christ but it doesn't say you know the logo l the same yesterday and forever. So he is talking about the mortal man Jesus Christ. Yeah. What makes me
seems to be a point for the Trinity. I don't do it because he speaks because he wasn't not Jesus Christ in the beginning. It was just yesterday, today. Yeah, yesterday, today and eternally. He was, he became the God man king. Okay, it's yesterday, today and eternally. People think it means from the very beginning, but he was not Jesus Christ in the very beginning.
Even though the trinitarians say he was. Yeah, he wasn't Jesus Christ in the beginning. He was the word of God in the beginning. His father, his father-in-law gave him the name Yeshua. Yeah, okay. Perhaps this is a good way of saying that Yeshua did not exist not at the beginning. Did not exist in the beginning. But man. Yeshua of Nazareth.
See how this verse literally says that Yeshua existed in the beginning. I know, but it's not because that he was not Yeshua. And that's a big problem. Like if someone said you can't say that because that's like saying he was Yeshua. All right. So I would say, how would this writer describe it to his readers? Would he call her Baba Labou? He would call him Jesus far away.
Would he call her Baba Labou? He would call him Jesus far away. If he were referring to his eternal state, he would say that the word made flesh is the same yesterday, today, and forever. But that's because you don't think Jesus existed in the beginning. No, I used to do that. But when you read the Scriptures, you know they must refer to him as someone.
And who does he designate, who was he known? He was known as Yeshua of Nazareth. Yeshua far away did not exist yesterday, today and forever. He became what he was. Cause for a verse like this. I can't hear you well. I don't think it is. Like saying it's very hard. This is a difficult question, because when you say Jesus Christ, you are thinking of a being who came from heaven, because the Trinity tells you that he does not.
Personally. But the Trinitarians do. They do it. They think that the Son of Man, God, the Son of Heaven, Personally. It is that he was the word of God and that he became Jesus far away, the Christos. When he became incarnate, that’s when he became Jesus of Nazareth, Jesus the Messiah. It's you. No, the Scripture says so. It's not me.
Scripture, John could have said that in the beginning was Jesus and Jesus was with God and Jesus was God. I know, but like the Trinitarians. Okay, okay. Point. What they do is that they personify him in his flesh as existing forever in this way. And it's not the case.
Even Trinitarians will say, we don't necessarily agree on what we call the eternal sun. Okay, okay. Because I. That's what you say, because it's one of their best. Defense. And when you see a Trinitarian, he reads that, he can't see any other way. It's so confusing. I guess I'm just saying K. Because of all the context you have, you can look at this verse and say, "Well, Jesus didn't exist in the beginning so that's not what it means.
said it doesn't mean the beginning in this sentence it just means yesterday not the beginning times because it's jesus because that's it but it's because of the context that you have Isn't it a question mark that when someone who has a different context than the Trinitarians interprets that other context in a different way, they might look at this and not make the same assumptions.
Absolutely, they do, yes. This is what makes the discussion so difficult because of the passages where the authors even refer to him as having ascended to heaven as Jesus. Yeah. Yes. Maybe what I'm trying to say is that the other verses seem like context to you that helps you interpret this one. Trinitarians would use this as context to then interpret the others as Jesus.
So the word at the beginning when “yes”. You know what I mean, he would say, well Jesus existed forever. So the word is Jesus, he existed at the beginning of time. Yeah, and very simply to back that up, Jesus says, now, Father, I have done what you said, glorify me with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.
This is another verse that would support the idea that he was a Jesus because it is Jesus who says this in his prayer to the Father in John 17. So I understand why the confusion exists. But I also understand that if you really do the work, if we could lay it out on a whiteboard, I think our arguments against hold up better than their arguments for.
Yeah. The context leans more towards one than the other. All right. And ? Yes, I see what you mean. So my question to you, let's say you were a Trinitarian, would be, when? Did the dear word receive the name Yeshua? When was he born, okay? received the name Yeshua? When was he born, okay? So I would say that it is at that moment, because he says that if he had said that the word of God is the same yesterday, today and forever, then I should have included Jesus the man as part of that because that is who he was in the flesh and therefore I would attribute the eternal Trinity to him. But he doesn't do that.
Oh my God, you're doing it so backwards. Do you think that if this verse spoke the word of God, you would believe in the Trinity? Much more than me because of this. He says Jesus, yeah. Wait, yeah, it's backwards for me. No, because the word of God, the word, the logo of God, it was... The same beginning. It was For this episode, I have to continue on that. Continue. This is what John 1 of 1 says.
In the beginning was the word. He speaks the word though. Yeah. So the word is eternal, not Jesus Christ. All right. Point. The Word John 1 of 1 says that in the beginning was the word. Speech has always existed. You say that if it spoke the same word yesterday, today and forever. Oh, that's why because this verse says it's the same.
Yeah. The word is the same yesterday, so the word for you changes. Yeah, absolutely. He had a word to say to the nation of Israel. He had other words to say to us. I mean, these words change, but they are immutable. Oh, I never thought of that. I thought about the words, I thought about the words because they existed in the beginning.
In the beginning was the word, this same word, as I know literal words change. Different words must be said, but the word of God is the same forever and was in Christ. Yeah, and it’s still the same words today that speak to us. Yeah. And so here is the difficulty because the logo which is translated by Mola.
Yeah. the difficulty because the logo which is translated by Mola. Yes. The logo is more than just words. It's his heart, it's his mind, it's him who changes. Well, remember he says I repent of making them, I'm going to destroy them. His heart for things changes. And so his love doesn't change, but things about him change from us.
And so his love doesn't change, but things about him change in relation to us. And that's why these things are so hard to get because of what you're going through right now. Oh, I didn't. It's difficult in the interpretation part, but having an understanding of Yechouan's perspective before reading this makes it easier.
But. This understanding was that speech was immutable. This is how I conceived the flesh of Jesus as something changing, but the word was immutable. Well, I think since the beginning of time. I think this is true, but only in terms of the ultimate traits and characteristics of God's heart. It is immutable.
Yeah. Yeah. And but for you, the word of God part is not one of those ultimate traits and characteristics. No, these words, they are eternal, but they will change in terms of application and economy. I'm going to shake everything. Words are how God relates to people over time, that’s how they change. Yeah, yeah, I see what you mean now.
But I have to admit that the Bible doesn't help us at all when it comes to passages like this because a Trinitarian reads this and that's it. The argument is over, and I understand why. And maybe that's why the guys who created him included him as an eternal son, as God the Son. All right. Point. Well, there are two other questions that I have, and this is what people always ask, is what is the unchanging part of God, so what is it? His love? His love is absolutely immutable.
All right. The way he... There is love, but the way he does it is different, which is the whole point of them. Our point today is that ours is the same. The way you love changes. So sin is not a possibility, and okay. So there was... Something you said. Jesus? Oh, one important thing, it is that Jesus, the man, changes.
Yeah, so it's strange to say that Jesus is the same because that Jesus was not the same either. Well, both the word, as I was more used to the word being fixed and Jesus changing because it was like a kind of material and spiritual dichotomy, but that amounts to saying that Jesus is the same. And all you're saying is that Jesus changes. Yeah. Okay, so maybe you're right, because he may not be talking about Jesus moral.
Maybe he's referring to Jesus heavenly, you know, and the same yesterday, today and forever. But maybe he's talking about even in a way that escapes us, you know? I don't know, yeah, that's fair. A really difficult question because... Because he's talking about himself after his death and his ascension. He writes that he was in that heavenly place above.
If he speaks of this Jesus, he was the same yesterday when he ascended to heaven, he is resurrected, today and eternally. Maybe that's the way to look at it, but I want to look at the Greek to see what it says. Can you ? Question mark. Yeah, flaunt it. Alright. While we, Jesus Christ, because... I mean, if there's one thing that's obvious, it's that Jesus has changed.
He is resurrected. He was alive. And he was dead. He is dead. Yeah. Point. Beget all like, do not be carried away by diverse and foreign doctrines. It is a hotel that is led by diverse and foreign doctrines. For it is good that the heart be established by grace, and not by food. Wow! Which were of no use to those who were attached to them.
You see! Why even discuss doctrine? At that time? Yeah ! We have a hotel from which those who serve at the tabernacle are not allowed to eat. For the bodies of animals whose blood is carried into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin are burned outside the camp. Therefore Jesus also, in order to sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered outside the gate.
Out of camp, that's what it means. Or ? E, out of the door, out. From the camp, out of the gate. That means out of camp, out, yeah. Let us therefore go to him, outside the camp, bearing his reproach. What do you have? What does opprobrium mean again? Like a facade. Yeah. His opprobrium. It's interesting. Yeah. His reproach was that he took upon himself our sins and our sufferings outside the camp.
Naked, stripped, beaten, dying. That was his reproach. Oh, we need to talk about this. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and for ever. So here is the eternal clarification on this point. But let's look at them. Age to come in Greek. It says, right? And for the centuries, not for the coming.
Oh ! But coming as it is deduced for the ages means as for everything that comes. All right. Point. All right. Point. So let me do this. Let's do one. Happy burpee, kid. It's just family time. There is no... No copula in Greek. Vincent insists that esteem be provided between Isus and Christo. Jesus is the Christ...
But he comes more naturally after Christos as the Revised Version says. Wait. Here it refers to the day of Christ's flesh. This is the and the recent work of leaders. Today is the crisis they face. Forever and eternity, as the Greek can say. This is not true. There is a better word. It is eternally the same and God's revelation in it is final and must never be replaced or supplemented.
Hence the danger of apostasy from man's only hope. Therefore Jesus Christ is eternally the same. This is not true. Yes. Because he changed by becoming flesh. Yes, then, and he quotes Hebrew 1:12. God in him must never be changed. That's what it says. Like Jesus is the same and God was in him all the time. Absolutely, since his birth in fullness.
Yesterday, today and forever. So that was your question, what does the same mean? Like there's an implication on the same because it's clear he died, was a person, cried, was hungry, whatever. Like it's not the same thing, right? But the God in him was the same, wasn't he? Question mark.
And I agree with the Trinitarians who take him for the same eternal, right? Question mark. But I have more of them, I don't know. I'm curious. Why is it not eternally the same when it says forever? Because forever, there is a Greek word forever. There is a Greek word forever. All right. And it is eternal. All right. Yeah. So when it says okay.
All right. Yeah. When he says okay. All right. Yeah. Which is even more radical because it says there that he is the same yesterday, today, and eternal according to each age. So, I don't know why it would matter, but... Because he might like that there comes a point where this whole thing happens again with a different price or something.
Yeah. I'm not coming. Don't completely understand that. Yeah. It is. Let's come back next week and we will be ready to talk to you about it. All right. It is. A deal. How much time have we spent? It was an episode. It was an episode. Alright. 22 minutes. How much time have we spent? It was an episode. It was an episode. Alright.
22 minutes. Sorry for the rambling on this one, but I... That's why it's good because she has now cut her teeth on a lot of the approach and she had caught something that really needs to be looked into by us. Maybe that will change something. And... Good, you. It's interesting because he's actually writing God on this trinity, right? Yeah.
So maybe that will be a good topic to bring up in there. Yeah. Alright. I'm eager to. Thank you all. Ava says goodbye to you. We love you. See you next time.