June 21st Fireside

LIVE CALL IN Fireside with Shawn and Delaney McCraney - YouTube

Transcripts:

Hey, we're live. >> Hey, welcome, welcome. >> We're going to start off with a call here, actually. So. >> Right on off. >> Let's get going. Hey, you're live on the air. >> Awesome. Hey, how's it going, John? And ando, Annie? >> Dude, how are you? >> Good. Hold on, let me my headphones here. Let me take these out.

Hey, does that sound any better? >> That's a lot better, yeah. Hey. [cough] >> Okay, cool. Hey, um I watched the end of you guys. Um I watched like every video. I at least listen to it on my headphones when I'm doing stuff. >> Wow. >> Um you know, I wanted to tell you about it. I love your ministry and you know, I um I became a Christian in 2021 after I got sober.

Um and then I joined a church and like it just killed my enthusiasm for Jesus. It was [laughter] like a Pentecostal church, a break-off from a church in here in Tampa called The River Church. >> Mhm. >> I don't know if you've ever heard of it, Pastor Rodney Howard Browne. >> I have heard of that. >> Yeah, it's it was really bad.

It just really really messed me up. Um but I'm grateful now that you know, my heart is opened up and I've received the message of fulfillment and um you know, I I like to call myself a Yeshua and I I mean I'm not I'm not perfect but you know, but I wanted to tell you about an experience I had today. Um so there's this girl, she's 35 and I met her at McDonald's one time.

She's homeless and addicted to crack. And I met her at McDonald's one time and I was buying her a coffee and she just started screaming about demons and and Satan and hell and I was like I was really blown I I was kind of taken aback and I didn't know how to handle it. So I thought to myself, oh this girl is just crazy, you know, there's no there's no having any kind of meaningful dialogue with her. She's just crazy.

And then today I was outside my house at like 5:00 a.m. she walked by, same girl, and she was like, "Hey, do you have anything to eat?" And I said, "Yeah, yeah." I made her breakfast and and sat outside with her and we talked for 2 hours and she her thoughts were were really scattered, you know, she was really all over the place and sometimes her sentence that know, I didn't get the point out of her sentence.

But the more we talked and I asked her questions about her life and her family and the more she kind of slowed down and calmed down and like we talked about God and and I was like and and she she started the conversation. She was like, you know, I I believe in God and I I know and she started quoting scripture and I was like, wow, this girl is very knowledgeable, you know, I said, you know, it's really amazing uh there's so many, you know, connections I see that you're making, you know, in in scripture and with the universe and she

said, yeah, but you know, I just I don't believe that God is all good. And I don't believe he's all powerful. Yeah, I just I don't feel it opened up so much since I've I've really like I and and I found your ministry totally by fluke. I was actually joining I was in the process of of joining Adam's Road. And I I had a a serious psychiatric breakdown.

Uh I'm schizophrenic and so they told me, you know, don't come to Florida, don't come see us. And I was really, you know, my heart was kind of broken, but then I I watched your video and you were the only one who reported what was going on. >> Yeah. >> And I I was listening to you and I was like, wow, I and and you said one at one point you said, "The hell that doesn't exist.

" And I was like, "Oh, and another thing you said that I really loved." You were like, you were teaching some students, you were debating them, and you were like, "Well, if it's only subjective, then why why why are we even listening to you? Like, what Why are they here?" And you Sean goes, "I DON'T KNOW." >> [laughter] >> IT WAS JUST SO AWESOME.

>> HEY, BROTHER, what's your first name? >> Jesse. >> Uh Jesse, I I love your heart, man. You sound like a really good soul, and you you really seem to seek him in spirit and truth and have the spirit of Christ loving you. It's a great It's a great opportunity to meet you, brother. >> Thank you, brother.

Yeah, and um I'm I'm going to hopefully call in again. Um I I I kept forgetting, but I'm so glad It's like so It means so much for me to talk to both of you, Dell and uh Sean. Really, like you guys are amazing. >> Thanks. >> you for all you do. >> Thanks, Jesse. We love you. You keep going, brother. >> Thanks for calling, Jesse.

>> brother. Yep, take care. >> Okay, bye-bye. That was a sweet call. What a way to start off. >> Yeah, that was awesome. Thanks for calling, Jesse. Um I understand what he means about the frantic nature of like uh believers today and the way they are like and you just go for a minute and let them talk and they >> Calm down.

>> Calm down. Jeff pointed that out. Jeff's in the chat right now, and he um put a question in our forums last week, I think, about someone who came on the live chat and was like all caps, like "Jesus is Yahweh." Like, "Praise him." Like, you know, and he reads it as like it like sh- he that person's shouting >> Yeah.

at Jeff something that, you know, and thought of it as aggressive. I thought of it more as like a babe in Christ, just like going on anywhere and just being like, "Praise Jesus." like in a annoying and offensive way kind of, but >> [clears throat] >> it could be either. Seems like what people kind of do though. >> People are hard, man, aren't they? It's really hard, really hard to try to love them.

And by the way, congratulations to uh Jeff. Didn't something happen with him graduating from uh >> Yeah, I I get the terminology mixed up. So, put it in the chat here, Jeff, what you graduated from. Um but they like a a group that he has been working with has like officially welcomed him into their community. >> Yeah, it has to do with Hebrew or Hebraic studies or Judaism and congratulations on all learning.

Learning is good. >> Yes. So, I'll start with our AI questions or our search engine questions. God, there's a lot of them. People are really using this thing. Um A simple one, why did Shawn leave the LDS church? >> [laughter] >> Do you want to say it? >> Yeah, I I left because the LDS system did not provide me with an authentic authentic relationship with God that worked. That was for me.

That's what I had to decide. I was a sinful man and none of their programs or strategies worked. I did everything I possibly could and I realized their doctrine was not doing it. And that's why. >> Um okay, if faith and love are two sides of the same coin, >> Mhm. >> how about atheists or humanists that still show love? Does that not count? >> Well, I mean, if you want to look at what the scripture says, love >> [snorts] >> counts uh because uh but the the problem is is the atheist love typically will not follow the Christian model of love. The

atheist love will draw a line. Uh, you punched my mom twice in the face over the past five years, I'll never forgive you. Versus the Christian is I will always resort to forgiveness and love as far as it's humanly possible. So, there's a difference. Also, there's a thing in scripture about you know, us reaping what we sow.

If an atheist sows love in their life, I don't see a God holding back reward for them like he would somebody who didn't. So, it's all those kinds of things. >> Uh, people don't understand that it's like super nuanced. It's not just any kind of love. And that but it it's just a shift in perspective. Um, Jeff said, "Thank you.

I completed my conversion to Judaism, which has been a multi-decade journey for me. The That's the word I couldn't think of." I don't know how to pronounce it. >> Bite din. >> Local rabbinic court interviewed me, and then I immersed myself and said the blessing. Um, and he gave me a description of that.

And it's a really wild and a different setting than I expected to see the pictures and stuff. So, >> So, now what do you guys think about? We have a brother here, uh, Jeff. He's been with us. He's He studies. He He seeks God in spirit and truth according to where he's been, and he's just converted to Judaism. I say that Jeff has faith.

I say that Jeff has might have a faith that's even better in many ways than mine. And I think that as long as he is someone who is seeking and trying, I think denominational lines even between a Jew and a Christian, a Jew and a Muslim, a Protestant and a Catholic, I think they should be overlooked and let's unite.

What do you guys think about that? >> Yeah, I agree. I agree. Um Yeah, I feel like we would contend with Jeff and have at times about like the place of Yeshua and that. >> Yeah. >> And that and that's where like the lines for Christians where we are going too far are because we will let Jeff, if he renounces Yeshua, we will let that happen.

>> Yeah. >> And they're like you know, if you believe in Yeshua, you would be hurting Jeff by not let and like So it's I'm trying to figure that out cuz I think Jeff knows about Yeshua. Like I don't think we have to like be shoving it in his face all the time cuz he clearly has studied and has decided how he wants to.

Yeah, so like >> And then additionally, there's things that Jeff knows and has learned that we don't. >> Exactly, yeah. >> Yeah, and so we can learn from him and and that's the whole point. I think I'm so grateful Jeff has stuck with us because he is showing what a united front is really about right here in our audience and I'm grateful for it.

>> Me, too. Um Shana is saying, "I love you guys. You have true hearts." And I feel the same back at you. We love you. Allowing people to be is a great thing. We can share and talk and disagree but at the end of the day, people make their own decisions and choices and hope for them to just decide and let it be.

That's the thing. Like >> And >> Matthew. >> Yeah. Um >> We love you, too, Jeff. He says he [clears throat] loves us. >> for where they are at and just keep your faith in God and look to living to the spirit. >> Amen, Matthew. >> At the very least, we can argue that that is the point. That is only the only effective thing today.

Like at the very least, even if we're wrong theologically, people are not listening to Christians. Christians are loud, they like have made it known, and people hate them. So, clearly that's not the way. >> Right. >> Like that's not the way. >> never worked. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And if we want people to come to Christ and this thing that we found, that is not how it's going to happen.

Not let alone a true faith in Christ, which is actually what we're getting at, but >> In addition to that, I just want to say that like my heart, there's different perspectives in each kind of Christian's heart. >> Yeah. >> And I've I've seen a lot of them. One of them toward Jeff. Let's just say that they're friends with Jeff.

They might have, you're going to go to hell. >> Yes. Yeah. >> Then there's some who say, well, you know, I really want you to know what I know is true, Jeff, and you know, I'll keep with you. And others say, oh, I can't wait for you to get yours. But the Yeshua'n perspective is you love and you unite with Jeff in all of his beliefs that are resonate to good and truth.

And if we die and we are standing outside the the kingdom and Jeff said, "Huh, maybe there was something to that Jesus." Our heart is, "Hey, you want to meet him?" >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, it's "Hey, you want to meet him?" And if we're wrong, for some reason that we're wrong and we don't think we are, but Jeff doesn't either.

Jeff says, "Hey, do you want to do you want to see what I found?" This is what we need. >> It's like so basic. >> I know. >> Um Um On that note, actually Jeff put a question in the forum a different question that said, "When a Mormon says when a Yeshua'n says" So, he said, "When a Mormon says something should be Christ-centered or someone should act more Christ-like, what does that actually mean? >> Mhm.

>> If it were to be defined non-circularly, he said. When a Yeshua and a Christian uses the same phrases if they do, and I when I answered it distinguished Yeshua and Christian, do they mean the same thing by them? If not, what's different between the perspectives? >> It's a great question. >> Yeah, and like ultimately I think what you're saying is and how I answered is every single person It's like there's no there's no way to say what a Mormon or a Christian would do cuz each person So, it's more about the type of Christ

>> Yep. >> that that person, how they define Christ, what they extract out of what Christ did. >> Yeah. >> And I think a Yeshua, and if there if there's a proper Yeshua, and it's the self-sacrifice aspect of Christ. It's like the ultimate way that Christ achieved victory was through sacrificing himself, and that's our model.

>> Absolutely. Mercy and sacrifice. >> Mercy and sacrifice. So, and Jeff said to clarify anyone following along this decision and stuff I took had nothing to do with making any decision about Yeshua one way or the other. As far as I'm concerned, he's a good example of a Jew. Thank you, Matthew. Um okay. >> So, back to um >> Tammy Johnson says, "Congratulations to Jeff. This is wonderful.

" >> Oh, yeah. Congratulations. Hey, Tammy. Okay. Lots of questions about, you know, what do you what do you teach about the two ages? What does I will say about being born again? I'm just going to read through them in case any stick out. How is Shawn many books on Mormonism? How does Shawn justify unity with all? >> Oh, I justify it by that's where the spirit of Christ is there is liberty and where there's liberty there can be justifiable unity and not one that is made by law and by culture and so my thinking is

this if people love God and I believe Christ was God with us so I don't distinguish between God and Christ if people love God just like Jesus said if they love my father they love me then they love him and that if someone doesn't you know really receive him accept him there's all sorts of reasons why but I believe that he is patient he doesn't force and that they will only come to know him by people who love so that's what I think.

>> Yeah I feel like a part of all of this is the recognition that we do share our thoughts when asked like and that seems to be missing in people's understanding and we teach and all that um um help me understand biblically why Sean McRaney believes Jesus has returned us to the Garden of Eden. >> Oh. Well it really isn't um it really isn't an on the nose biblical tenant to be honest with you I can't prove it it's a conjecture but it's based off a few things one the first garden Adam and Eve were booted out uh for disobedience

Christ came and was obedient on behalf as the second Adam and because he reconciled the world to the father that to me suggests that we are back in the state that man got kicked out of the world we got kicked out of the state where human beings got to choose between uh eating from a tree of life and eating from a tree of knowledge of good and evil it's a conjecture on my part that the second Adam did that when he biblically is seen to have reconciled the world to God.

I don't see any reason for us to be outside of that state >> Mhm. >> spiritually if we're not if we're reconciled. >> Yes, I see. >> the thinking. I can't prove it. It is a conjecture. >> Yeah, there isn't it all we have in terms of proof are the new covenant written on the minds and hearts. >> Yeah. >> And the new and like new Jerusalem, like afterlife.

>> Yeah. >> There's >> [laughter] [gasps] >> Sorry. >> slightly dragged her foot pad across my delicate knee. >> [laughter] >> It was not a pleasure of the sensation. >> [gasps] >> Sorry. Um >> foot pad >> [laughter] [gasps] >> Um what did Uh yeah, Matt says new heaven and new earth heavenly Jerusalem. >> Yeah. >> New heaven and new earth.

>> Yeah. >> Is there are Sorry, but are there descriptions of the new earth? Did you just say that? >> Yeah, there's new heaven new earth and that's where That's where I say we go back to the new earth spiritual garden. >> Garden, but are there are there actual verses talking about what the new earth is? >> Yeah, and that's all but it's through Hebrew language, and so you have to understand that they speak in terms that are not literal.

They're >> Yeah. Yeah. But what are what are what are they? Do they talk about anything? >> will lie with the lion. The the child will put its hand on the on the snake pit, but it's it's all talking about figurative, and people read it literally. >> Yeah, the I just saw something You know who I'm seeing go ape s h i t on Facebook right now is Carl Westerland.

>> Really? >> Going all of specifically about all millennialists. >> Really? >> Yeah, how if you believe that that if Jesus came back he's doing a terrible job at running this Earth. >> Wow. >> Like really going hard. So >> stuff like that? >> Yeah, and I didn't know I just have heard that name.

I don't even know the association. >> He was a mentor with Carl with Chuck Smith. >> Wow. >> close to Carl. >> Wow. >> my dean at the school of ministry. >> When's your last communication with him? >> Years. >> Does he know what you're doing? >> Oh, I'm sure. All that is is a report to the dean what this other kid is doing, you know, and yeah.

>> Well, I mean he's going off on everything. It's political, it's everything is really he's really in that realm of Christianity as most people who are futurists are. So >> saw him as being very peaceful and docile. >> Maybe maybe it's this same thing with Jeff, but the way I read he goes all caps on Facebook. This is not done.

And then like writes a thing about it. So I just read that as like angry and like lots of stuff. >> Wow. He's really bought the whole narrative of futurism. Chuck Smith Calvary Chapel futurism. But that's what he taught me, too. >> Yeah. Um So okay, Deuteronomy 7:8 and 9 seem to conflict. First it says because probably conflict with the Essene teaching.

First it says because of his love seemingly precursory and unconditional he redeemed them, but then in the following verse makes his covenant of love conditional on their obedience and love for him. Let me read the verses really fast. It actually it's not with the Essenes it's within itself. Um >> Well, I would say under the law that's because God's love was conditional.

It was reciprocated. His favor was bestowed upon obedience. His favor was not bestowed unconditionally. And so that's why I think it looks like a contradiction in Deuteronomy. >> Yeah, but because the Lord loved you, because he would keep the oath which he had sworn upon your fathers, hath the Lord brought you out with a mighty hand and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen from the hand of Pharaoh, king of Egypt.

I don't think that means it's unconditional, that phrase. >> No. >> Because he loved you, he did this one thing. >> Right. >> Yeah. Know therefore that the Lord thy God, he is God, the faithful God, which keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love him and keep his commandments to 1,000 generations. >> condition of it. >> Yeah, from what I hear of your teachings, it doesn't seem like the Old Testament God was unconditional at all.

>> No, seemed pretty conditional, but his mercy kept winning out. >> Like the his love what his love was unconditional in the long run. Yeah, through Christ. >> run, yeah. >> Mhm. >> Yeah, but along the way he was setting examples to show you can't really do it. So let's just it's a fascinating narrative that he gave over these 1,500 2,000 years now.

>> Yeah. >> Actually four, five. >> Isn't it Yeah, I feel like there is such thing as the timing of the 2,000 years since Christ. >> Mhm. >> Cuz what was it kind of 2,000 years before that to Moses? >> 1,500. >> 1,500 and then to Adam and Eve you can kind >> Moses to Adam and Eve From Adam and Eve to Moses, they're somewhere looking like 4,000 years, 5,000 years.

Yeah, from from Adam and Eve to Moses, it was a long time. I mean, even from Adam and Eve to like the Tower of Babel or to Noah was a long time. >> That's really interesting. In 2000 year cycles though. >> I know there's seems to be something to that. Yeah. And I've tried to like make it work but I haven't.

That's what a lot of futurists do. They try to take these cycles and say okay, he's coming back then. Yeah. >> Interesting. Um Diamond Davey says, oh cool alive morning all. Hey, we are live like four times a week but people never see it. I don't know what's going on with our our show but yes, welcome. Uh Jeff I think he's quoting from Isaiah 65:17.

It's sky and land same as Genesis 1 so answering my own question. It's like a new creation not an age. I missed your question. Sorry. It said Um is the new earth a new land or a new age? I haven't word searched this. Oh. >> Oh, I see. >> We're talking about the new >> It's a new earth under a It's kind of like the way I explain it.

Maybe Jeff doesn't agree with this but uh the former economy was like the Washington DC under Reagan. And the new economy was Washington DC under Clinton. >> An economy. >> It's the economy. It's a change of administration. >> Okay. >> And on the earth and the new earth was going to be under a different administration. Is what it meant.

>> Okay. >> It's not that the material earth would change necessarily that much or the heavens would physically but the administration of both heaven and earth would change. >> I just don't see how people don't see that that actually happened. There's no nothing has happened since Christ. >> Yeah. >> Nothing. >> Yeah.

>> Like there's no like I guess they can say it has but >> They keep trying to. That's what I love. It's just like get the popcorn and listen because it's hilarious. >> The loops that have to >> Yeah, the loops. >> Yeah. Um he and he's saying it's the word is like a new creation. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, I can see it.

>> That's a new creation. >> Um which is referencing Isaiah 65. So and same as Genesis 1, the creation. Sean, [clears throat] you may be able maybe write in the interpretation. I was just wondering if the word was the aeon word or the earth word. I think there's a Bible verse in Revelation that says the Lord will have all the nations under him and something like that.

Universal authority had arrived. >> Oh baby, yeah, you know where that verse is? It's really found in Revelation chapter 11. I think verse 8 where it says in the kingdoms in the RSV, in the kingdoms of the world have become his kingdom. Singular. And it's picturing what we say is going on now. The kingdoms.

That's why I say it doesn't matter if you're a Jew or Gentile, I'm sorry, or Muslim or whatever, you know. >> The um you guys should watch this Sunday teaching. >> Yeah. >> The we're talking about kingdom series. We're talking about that on the Yeshua's channel. Um >> While we're talking, I just want to throw it out there, you guys.

We're going to be gearing up here in Utah and then maybe in your states to come out to the desert adjacent to the colleges, high schools, and we want to talk to people and have them come out and get people of faith to unite in love. I know it's not what all the leaders say. I know it's what our own are mocking the heck out of.

Oh, we can't do it for this reason. That's not the same God and blah blah blah. Look it, man. Let's just get over that. You be a Muslim, you be a Jew, you You a Buddhist, you be a Christian. Let's try to love people who try to walk in faith. Come on, man. So, join us out there in the desert. Go to meet Shawn the Baptist and you can see the schedule for Utah and then Vegas.

>> Thank you for that. So, someone someone's really going hard on this AI. They said, "Why does Shawn Mcraney believe the bride of Christ has to be literally spotless and that had to be maintained and enforced by the apostles and elders? Does Shawn Mcraney believe the bride was literally spotless when Jesus came for them in AD 70? What role did Jesus play in presenting his bride spotless?" >> Okay.

So, this is the reason I teach that. Paul says it in Ephesians chapter 5 that they should be spotless. Uh without without spot, blemish, or anything like to it. The second reason I do it is because of the way the apostles govern that bride. They were not to put up with any kind of shenanigans. They were to excommunicate people, turn them over to the Satan of that day, and let him uh have his way with him until they repented.

The third reason is because when Yeshua pops up in the third and second chapter of Revelation, he chastises the seven church for different reasons and he tells them unless they straighten up, they were not going to be saved at his coming. So, those things tell me that they were under a very different order. Now, how were they spotless? Well, they had an abundance of the Holy Spirit.

They had apostolic leadings. They had Christ with them. They had witnesses of his resurrection. They were empowered to overcome that world more perhaps than we are and that's what Those are my arguments for that. >> Um can I some of the citations that gave that question gave and just address them? >> Yeah. >> Um, so Jude 1:24 said, "Now unto him that is able to keep you from the falling and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy.

" >> Yeah. >> What is that Why would they cite that as relevant to this question and what's your answer to it? >> I think that they're citing Jude and and what he's describing as who keeps them and kept them faultless and that's absolutely true. It wasn't through their own flesh that they did it, but it was by submitting themselves humbly to the spirit in charge to keep them unspotted from the world, not their own works.

So, don't get me wrong. >> Um, yeah, L John Steve, I think John Steven? >> John Steven, I know him. >> of yours? >> Yeah. >> Um, he's on Instagram, so he can't I don't know why it doesn't pull those comments into the chat, but it says the earth is not the world and the and only the cross makes us spotless. >> Well, I would agree with that.

>> Um and some more 2 Timothy 4:18 and the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom. To him be glory forever and ever. Amen. >> Absolutely, it's the Lord that did it, but they had to allow him. >> Yeah. >> Cuz there's plenty of other passages where they are warned that if they turn back to their old ways of Judaizing in the law, they weren't worth a damn.

>> Yeah, and then that he might Ephesians that he might present it to himself a glorious church not having spot or wrinkle >> Yeah. >> or any such thing, but that it should be holy and without blemish. >> Or any such I mean, we're talking about literally a virgin bride is what it's talking about and the best application of that is they did not follow idols.

>> Mhm. >> Not a virgin, didn't have sex, it's that she did not pursue after idols. >> And then, yeah, in the body of his flesh through death to present you holy and unblemishable and unprovable in his sight. >> Yeah, all through him. >> That's the hardest thing in going through and I don't get the Bible was it's like you talk about it as the transition they're in transition.

>> Yeah. >> And it's even in the Old Testament you refer to what they needed to do as faith ultimately, but it was but they had law, but if someone had faith it superseded that. So there was like it seems like there's some of that going on with the bride, which is why it isn't such a black and white thing that like the bride had to be this it just is like a a tool to get someone to >> It is it's like um it's like a like a tool, yeah.

It's like a picture sort of. It doesn't mean literal, it just means in heart and in drive because it's only through Christ that they were literally pure, right? >> And can I ask you a quick question? I've seen something I don't fully understand the meaning of dispensationalism cuz I feel a lot of criticism of that. Can you explain it? >> Yeah, uh there was a guy in the 1800s, his name was uh John Darby and he created out of his own mind by reading the Bible that there are dispensations of time and it's kind of like ages, but

he created a lot more and we're in a dispensation right now that's a gap between Christ coming and him re- re- coming back. We're >> So these last 2,000 years >> have been a dispensation, yeah. And some people say that that dispensation correlates to um the time for the Gentiles, a season for the Gentiles and it looked like it would be only this big in the Bible, but that represented to God was this big.

So, time doesn't matter, and we stay locked in these dispensations. Time >> Yeah. >> So, what does a critic of dispensationalism believe? Because these guys aren't preterists, but they criticize this So, what do they believe? >> They believe amillennialism. They believe different end-time explanations of the millennium.

>> You just taught that. >> Yeah. >> And I remember that. >> Yeah. And that's what it is. It's all these different views of when this will happen. So, Carl Westerland's going against amillennialism because they think we're it's already gone on. We're kind of we're in it. We're we're going through it. And he's saying then Christ's church is Christ is doing a terrible job if we're in the millennium. Is Carl's point.

In the millennium. >> that is criticizes dispensationalism is typically someone that thinks we're in the millennium. >> Yeah. Typically. >> Okay. But then there's people who say the rapture isn't even a thing and all that stuff. There's so much. >> so >> You really went through it in detail. >> And I can't remember because I just I don't choose to try to remember.

I just try to teach it to make it so And then because you'll spend your time I know people have spent their whole life trying to understand amillennialism. Like volumes. It's not worth it. It's it's something just grab the concepts by. >> Yeah. >> Yeah, but in our last teaching on the kingdom, you can read about amillennialism, historicism, idealism, and all that all those isms.

>> Yeah, you went through it really well. Um >> Thoughts. There are Bible verses that many people argue about being sealed for the day of redemption. However, that was for the first century by, but many people say they can't be unsealed cuz of it. Look it, man. I think that if you are able, the apostolic record clearly shows that there was a predestined bride that God elected to be Christ and that they were sealed to the day of redemption, which was his return and the end of that age.

So, those are my thoughts about it, Mr. Matthew. The Book of Revelation lends itself toward Darby's idea. Darby's uh somewhat by seals being opened one by one. And that's true, and that's a good way also to see how dispensationalism got its legs. Is they see these seals and these bowls and it's just endlessly it's it's almost like how do you describe the elephant >> Yeah.

>> when you have only had access to the leg >> Yeah. >> or the nose or ear. >> Yeah. Um It is true insanity. >> Yeah. >> If you got If any of you get into the weeds of the Christian uh algorithms, theological debate, which I'm in the thick of, I'm I'm going to blow my brains out. >> Yeah.

And that is like the opposite of what it should do. It should be bringing peace, >> Yeah. >> joy. Hey, cool. We don't have that. I really wish we could bring in the hippie mentality to the faith again and let everybody [clears throat] just relax and and love each other and let God figure out who's right and who's wrong. >> I imagine you someone of your generation especially cuz I've been seeing people of your generation come up and just like there was nothing can offend us.

Like you guys were just playing it cool and everyone understood and you're having to face this like really opposite culture of how you grew up. >> Yeah. >> And >> My older siblings were all of the hippie movement. And and just, you know, peace, love, flowers, understanding. And I've always thought that was a beautiful thing that reflected Jesus better than anything.

God, evangelicals have made it horrific. >> Horrific. Um >> Let people be. Yes, Matthew. >> The Book of Revelation lends itself toward Darby's idea somewhat by seals being opened one by one. Who's Darby? >> Explain. >> Oh, you just Sorry. >> is Yeah. >> I'm losing it. >> Yeah. >> End of Sunday. Um I'm trying not to argue with anyone anymore like I stated first when I got here. Yeah, Matthew, agreed.

Reading Zechariah and Daniel are the best way to deradicalize Revelation because if you see what it's riffing off of it becomes clearer >> So true. >> what it isn't. >> So true. Zechariah, Daniel, Amos, Malachi, Isaiah. >> Wow. >> You cannot understand Revelation unless you understand those prophetic books. >> All it takes is for someone I guess there are people that have really read the Bible and are still insane, but um there so many people haven't read the Bible that like myself who still feel I still feel kind of grounded, but you get

swept up in the just like volume of literal [ __ ] Sorry. >> And my response to that is that because the letter of the law kills. The spirit of the law does not and it's the letter that is killing us. We're reading that thing all wrong and I don't know what ad nauseam is. What's ad nauseam? >> What is that? >> It's by ad nauseam.

I used to argue ad nauseam. >> Ad nauseam probably. >> Oh. I used to ad nauseam. Oh my gosh, I'm sorry. [laughter] >> No, it's okay. >> a philosophy, ad nauseam. >> Maybe. Maybe I have that wrong. Resting and having peace with the Lord is so much better than fighting and bickering. Like I think people are coming to >> Oh, I hope you do, man. Embrace it.

God doesn't get mad at you for loving other people, uniting with them in kindness and mercy. >> They There are things even for myself this last week, there are things that have me feeling evil for believing that. >> Yeah. >> It's such like gnarly religious [ __ ] like sorry for my language, but it just gets in you.

>> in you. >> To think that loving someone that opposes Jesus is evil, that you are doing evil by like not >> Cuz you're contributing it. If you're not part of the cause the cure, you're part of the cause. >> Yeah. >> You know, shut up and read what we're extolled to do. >> Yeah. >> That's all I say. >> Yeah. >> They're wrong.

I don't care what they say. >> John Steven over in um Instagram said the Holy Spirit is the spirit of Christ. Good words and thoughts from God of all flesh is Jesus Christ. The rapture is the resurrection that came by the Vatican 1600. >> Or where's this >> Because people believed that the Pope was the Antichrist along with the Trinity.

>> Oh, I see. It's a comment. >> Ad nauseam. Oh. >> Sorry, I thought you were saying ad nauseam. >> Yeah, sorry. I I You're good, Matt. Um Help me understand Sean McDowell's teachings that every human Did we talk about this? Has the spirit of Christ indwelling in them, but not everybody is a child of God or will be enter able to enter the New Jerusalem.

>> Yeah, I mean, the spirit of Christ in you is uh according to the first chapter of the Gospel of John. He was the light that came into the world and lighteth all men. This is the stance of the Quakers. And that in his victory, all of us now have a glimmer of the spirit of Christ in us.

That's why I say we are all back in the Garden of Eden choosing what we want. Now, having that in us doesn't mean you walk by it. It's not forcing you. >> Yeah, and it means there's no hell that you're being saved from. Everyone's in the new Every There's a new Jerusalem and you can go in it anytime you want. >> Right. Come. >> You're allowed The spirit of Christ allowed for this new heavenly realm for people to all exist in.

>> they want. Now, it's back to choice. >> Yeah. >> Most don't. And he's not punishing them for not. He gave his son to take care of that. >> Is there something biblically against saying though that everybody is in the realm of the new Jerusalem and they're just either going in They're going where they want in or outside of the gates and they're all there because of Christ in them.

>> Yeah, that is meaning everybody's been saved to irrespective of faith. That would not be supported by the text. Everybody is saved from pain, sin, hell, bondage, and all that. But everyone's saved to the kingdom only by faith in what? >> I guess I'm just saying that could the kingdom is the kingdom specifically inside the gates of the new Jerusalem or are the outside of the gates could also be part of the kingdom? >> Because like it's like it's really a good question because the way they talked about kingdoms was relative to

the way they did kingdoms on Earth. And the king and his children lived in the palace. But outside of it was still the kingdom. >> Yeah. >> They were part of his And And were paupers and there was crime areas and there were this and that, but it was also And so, the question becomes, is it all a kingdom, or is it only in the kingdom? I only care about what's in the kingdom, because Revelation says what's outside of it are those who love a lie, and who uh >> I know, but like the fact that that whole I see the whole thing as the

victory. Like everyone has a place that they can go. That It can be what they want. And I don't want to be outside the gates. >> Right. >> But people might And the whole thing is the kingdom. It's kind of Mormon in the three like >> Yeah, it's kind of Mormon in that sense. >> Well, maybe not. >> But it is a kingdom land.

There is a Jerusalem in it. That's where God and Christ dwell. Outside of it are those who don't want it. And I believe outside of it is like this world. >> Okay, maybe is the New Jerusalem That's what That's why I think I hear it as the whole thing is the kingdom, because the whole thing is the New Jerusalem. And there's four gates that are open. Okay.

So >> The New Jerusalem is surrounded by walls. It has four gates three gates on each side. >> Okay. All >> That's the New Jerusalem. But outside of it >> Okay. >> I think the Mormons will be outside of it, cuz they don't want to go in there. >> It's going to be interesting to see who's outside of it. >> Yeah. >> Um God will still be calling to people in the afterlife.

I think maybe we can go and help those outside, but I don't know. >> I hope so, too, Matthew. That's my That's my I think what we prepare ourselves spiritually to be here will go with us there, and we will be used accordingly. But that's my hope. >> I Yeah. It does Do Is the saved from and saved to it's a linguistic change, or a contextual uh reading that you give a name to.

>> It's a contextual uh phrasing that I give to explain what the scripture's saying. >> Okay. Okay. >> And >> saved from being the literal uh destruction of Jerusalem, end of that age, hell, shield ending. >> Yeah. >> Saved from that. >> Yeah. All. >> Yeah, which is uh yeah, maybe it's semantic, but I see that as being a you're you are given because you're saved from that, you are saved to this new economy.

We are right now saved to the new economy. >> people who are born and never receive that economy, that administration in them, doesn't mean it's not in them. That's why I say they have a conscience, they have a light, they know God's calling to them. >> Yes. >> They just freely choose not to accept it. >> Yeah, I it just seems to like explain your I I don't know, maybe someone give thoughts on this, but I feel like it explains what you're trying to say more, that everyone's going to that kingdom and you choose where in that kingdom you

want to be. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Like >> But I do believe there are realms outside of that kingdom. >> Mhm. >> That are so dangerous and dark and bad. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And people are right now choosing to go there. >> That's right. And they love it there. >> Yeah. >> And that's why I have that that secondary belief speculation, that when people die and they receive their resurrected body, if it's not to be fitted to the new Jerusalem, then it's fitted for here, this world.

And that's why I think that people who love this world and the things of it are lingering around the bars and the and the porn and the places of pleasure spiritually. And that's why there's dark forces there, because those are the things I sense in myself. >> That, which is to say the kingdom is here, parts of it.

>> Yeah. >> And this is part of the kingdom, which actually kind of makes it make sense, but sorry to go through that journey with you all. >> [clears throat] >> why I believe, and I don't talk about it much, that when I was little, I saw a dead woman. And she was here. And it answers that for me. >> Mhm. >> And the spiritual powers now that are here, I mean, you go to Have you ever just happened to be in a place and you're like, man, this place does not feel right? >> Yeah. And there's so much of that.

And I don't know. You could say it's just like an aesthetic thing, but >> Yeah, you could. And that's fine, you have that choice. >> It's amazing to me that um Wait, there's a lot. It'd be something to do. That might be too much for him. Saved from hell as sin does sin. That doesn't mean that you want to be in the kingdom with God.

I guess that's Maybe I personally wonder about calling the inside of the gates the kingdom. I think cuz that's what it really gets people hung up >> Let me change that then in my future talks. And the inside of the gates are the New Jerusalem. Because the old Jerusalem was surrounded by walls. So, that's what they thought, they were impenetrable to attack.

We have walls around Jerusalem. We cannot be touched. So, you're right. I think that as a clarification, no. When I hear it, I know. That's a clarification that should be made. Yeah. Uh Jeff says, well, Matthew says it's amazing to me that God honors human free will. He never forces them to serve him.

And even when Yeshua called his disciples, they were never forced. Uh they chose to leave everything behind. That's right. >> Yeah. I can The longer I go, the more Calvinist determinist, it's like if I'm being forced to choose God right now, I don't even know. >> I have a word for it. I'm sorry, it's evil. >> Yeah. >> It's the worst form of a god and I prefer the Mormon's god to the Calvinists.

>> Yeah, me too. >> Jeff says, "Isn't it possible?" And I agree with this that Zion New Jerusalem is a peaceful coexistence forged in our hearts and not through territorial conquest. I absolutely believe all of this is spiritual. And the kingdom of god is within us. And then he's cites Isaiah 45:23, "Before me every knee will bow, by me every tongue will swear." And I agree with that, too.

But >> Yeah. >> I I think that is just a sign of his love and long-suffering victory over the human heart. Not forced like Matthew said above. >> Yes. It does seem like that was a big moment in your work was coming to the realization of the kingdom starting here. This is like this is it. This is what where Christ works on us.

I don't know. Like that's the point is like we're not waiting for rewards in the afterlife. Like the same rewards here are probably going to come there and they're just not recognized here and they don't >> You'll just be removed from the thing that keeps you from fully understanding and engaging in them now. >> Yeah.

And and the this realm doesn't reward those rewards. So you feel like you're being punished. >> Yeah, you're an alien. You you don't belong. No one gets you. No one cares. And that's what the the scripture repeatedly talks about you're aliens in a foreign land. You're you're wandering around. You don't have a home and that is exactly how you feel in this world when you're trying to follow that kingdom within you.

>> Can I ask is that a Old Testament thing as well or is it more of a Jesus thing? Um feeling like alien and >> Oh, no. Well, the the concepts were present in the Old Testament, but we discover them present when through the narrative, but it's not on the nose. It's when you get to the apostolic record where like the writer of Hebrews says that Abraham was a sojourner throughout his life looking for a promised land, but he never found it because his kingdom was above.

And that And that God when he gives the law to the Jews, he'll say, "Make sure you're hospitable to foreigners and aliens and strangers because you were once one, too." And that the whole idea of being out of the out of the kingdom and then entering into it is all through. And when you enter in, that's your home.

All of it's replicated in the stories throughout the Bible. Yeah. >> Is I never heard that before. Jeff had something to consider. Definitely. >> Yeah, definitely. >> Um Okay, keep going. Keep going. We have just a little bit left. >> My gosh, this hour goes by so quick. >> I know. There's so many >> By the way, happy Father's Day, someone said.

And that means I have to also add Happy Mother's Day when those happen. >> [laughter] >> Distinction, does Sean believe Does Sean believe Jesus is the only man who can become God? If so, why? >> What? >> Does Sean believe Jesus is the only man who can become God? >> No. No, I I believe that all human beings can become deified, but we become the children of the almighty God.

We do not become gods. There's a difference. We are his created beings to become deified through faith in Christ, uh joint heirs with him, the one who became flesh. And by and through our faith in him, we become deified through a process of his resurrected strength to be like him in the kingdom as God's children, but we are not individual gods.

You know, at least not that I know of. The Mormons think you are, but I don't you know, they they believe they could tell us we are becoming gods. I I draw the line at that one. >> Mhm. Um Does Shawn believe in the incarnation? How would he describe his beliefs on this? Where they come from in the Bible specifically? Can you help me understand how he understands passages like Philippians 2 and Colossians 1? >> I believe in the incarnation.

>> [laughter] >> I absolutely believe in it and I believe that the word of God was made flesh and dwelt among us. >> [laughter] >> I mean, I obviously I'm going to believe that. >> Um Okay. What did you just say that I had a question on? I think this might be someone preparing to talk to you soon. >> Oh, good.

What does they say? >> [laughter] >> No, all these that I'm reading. >> Oh. >> He's like trying to catch you in things that are totally blasphemous. >> Wow. >> Find I don't know. Shawn got has since Shawn believes the image of God in Genesis 1 is masculine and feminine and you've described Yahweh's actions in the Old Testament as masculine >> More masculine.

>> and Jesus uh and the spirit's actions in the New Testament >> More feminine. >> Can you help me understand even though Jesus is the male of the bride but can you help me understand your definition of masculine and feminine and where that comes from in the Bible? >> Well, it comes from just the general traits that sociologists, psychologists, and medical doctors say are typical for males versus females.

When we look at what those descriptions are, we see God in the Old Testament acting pretty male. He likes to go to war, he likes to kill things, he likes to wipe things out, he gets pissed, he gets impatient, he changes his mind, he's a man. Okay? And in the incarnation, we have Jesus who comes, he's meek, he's mild, he he's a a shepherd who who tends the sheep, he's a tender, and all these other things that describe women.

And so from that, I just say it seems like when God made man in his image, he made man male and female, men and women. >> He acts like you are just coming up with this out of thin air. There There are many people that teach of masculinity and femininity with God. >> Yes. >> And unity of the like it's a >> I've never looked it up. >> That I've heard people say that.

>> believe it. >> Not in the same way. >> person who wrote that really is on that one. They don't like it. But all I can say is logic tells me and the scripture says, "Let's make man in our image, male and female made he them." I don't know what else you need. >> Yeah, it's really interesting. Why do you Christians translate ecclesia ecclesia as church when the Greek word behind church is uh kyriakos? >> Ooh, good one.

>> that one? Um belonging to the Lord as seen in the Lord's Supper and the Lord's Day. Do you know about this? >> Uh I don't know the kyriakos. Uh I don't recognize that fully that Greek word, but then again, I can't read it well. Uh but I would say that Christians translate ecclesia to church. I think the word better means those called out, not belonging to the Lord.

And I and and and so, but that's the only thing I can say to that cuz I haven't studied Daniel on that. Jeff says, "Look up every reference of El Shaddai in the Tanakh and everyone will show feminine aspects of God in the context around it." Thank you, our Jewish scholar. Hahaha, [laughter] Mr. Whoever's trying to say that God is just a man.

>> Also, it seems like church ekklesia is probably used in all the times where there's like an instruction given to a body of people to do something. >> Yeah. All the time. >> Yeah, that's the word used with and that Christians focus on like I would instead see if it uses the Lord's Supper and Lord's Day as something a different word, then that's the exception.

>> Oh, okay. >> What wouldn't you say? Like if they're like ekklesia isn't just like a random thing that Christians picked up on. It's all over the >> all over. >> you want to know something interesting is when Yeshua said in the Gospels that if you have a problem with your brother, take it to the elders of the ekklesia and have them handle it.

And Christians read that and think he's talking about a church like today and present. He's talking about the Jewish synagogue. >> Wow. >> He's not even talking about the the church. >> Yeah. >> So, >> Insane. Ekklesia means gathering congregation. That other one means of the Lord. Isn't of the Lord closer to the way holy is used? Yeah, not church rather than church, he means.

Yeah, holy versus gathering. >> Yeah. >> Um Someone's writing again this sort of can an atheist have an agape love? It's occurring to me that the point you're trying to make is that we aren't the ones conjuring Christ. >> Right. >> Christ is where Christ is. >> Right. >> So, if someone has love, then that's Christ, and you're not doing it.

Christ is there. So, if I have love and faith, Christ is with me. >> And boy, don't we have examples of that in the world of people who don't necessarily profess him. >> Yes. >> Showing he's in them operating whether they believe on him or not. >> So, why a Christian What is a Christian doing when they say Christ isn't powerful enough to be in a thing that doesn't accept him? That's what they're saying then.

>> Yeah, because they're taking the apostolic model where the apostles said to the Jews and some Gentiles, you must receive him by faith to be saved. >> Okay. >> So, they take that and they assign it in the age of fulfillment and victory, and that is where it's lost. >> Okay, and it gets into the whole like good fruit, bad fruit can't come from the same tree, clean and unclean can't unclean thing can't be the same, right? >> Right, but if he's had the victory, all of that's wiped out.

>> Okay, so that's our justification for it, but yeah. >> Yeah, and it's not easy. >> The The question to me is like they Were they clean? It seems like and it seems like that person earlier was asking the same like the bride Were they There was a a person asking about the spotlessness of the bride. >> She was clean by faith.

>> Right. So, like there is still even when the cleanliness was a factor, it wasn't in purity of flesh. >> No. >> Still. >> No, it's always through Christ. >> Which is to say an atheist can still in their flesh have Christ. >> Sure. >> Even then it's still the same. >> yeah. Even then, yeah. And that's why we have Rahab the harlot who was justified before God.

>> And what do they do with that? >> know. I don't know what they do with that. I just know they don't agree with it. >> It's religion. They have made a giant machine mess out of this. And it's lost completely on what he's done. I really think as we wrap up that there is a psychosis that's in certain religious types. And it's in every type.

Muslims, Jews, Christians, everybody. And the types who have that psychosis they cannot do anything but make it their system and to use it as a club on everybody. >> Yeah. >> And that and I think that's what Christ came to just destroy. >> And those people have absolutely no conception of the fact that we do this cuz we love God.

>> No. >> Of having a love for God. It's not about that. Or they don't even know what that you can have a love for God. They're like about what you're supposed to do. Like they don't It's not even a thought to them that they love God. >> So what it unfolds more and more and more, loving kindness, allowance, mercy.

Psalm 136:23, who remembered us in our lowest state for his steadfastness love endures forever. Just to end on that one from Jeff. Just to let you know Psalm 136, every single line in that ends with for his mercy endures forever. Jeff said his steadfast love. I guess that's another way to say mercy because the King James says for his mercy endures forever.

That means this God does not lose. We will submit and bow to him in love someday. That's my hope. >> 100% my hope too. Thank you all. >> Thanks you guys for tuning in on Father's Day. Give your old man a call if they're alive. If not, go wish a man with a beard a nice day. I don't know why. >> Thanks, guys. >> Don't [laughter] >> Thank you. Bye-bye.

>> Bye.