June 7th Fireside

LIVE CALL IN Fireside with Shawn and Delaney McCraney

Transcripts:

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... ... ... ... ... ... Stay, by the way, hello everyone. Hello everyone. Welcome. we are live. Uhm, we're live and I just want to check one thing. Okay, if you're here, who are we? I'm Preride, I'm Preride Chan. I'm Delaney. We are from Jesuan's Yesuwan Fate. Kool, an hour-long meeting that we do every week after a lot of content that we cover every week.

Wow, there's so much we could talk about. We don't plan anything. We just talk and you may want us to plan, but we do a lot of planned things and we love hearing what you have to say. Hopefully you'll call in at 2.202.224.686. Check my church says Heyo. How do you like this? I'm starting to get used to this.

The sound is great, says Tad. Thank you, Tad. Thank you. The Leni Man. She connected us. For some reason I did exactly the same thing as last time and yet it works completely differently now, but apparently not. EHM, thanks for being here. Feel free to ask your questions. Yes. EHM, we get questions from very different angles that we answer when we don't get calls.

Um, some of these are from social media channels that we're just launching. Uhm, yeah, go ahead. Oh, oh, I thought you were done, but I took a breath. We launched Jean-Thibaptiste this week. We launched Jean-Thibaptiste this week. If you are part of our audience, follow Meets Jean-Thibaptiste on the various social media channels and you will start to see real social content, something we have never done before.

Jean-Thibaptiste is now a social media influencer. And I'm Erin. You are an influencer. EHM, you can go to your Suwan, Veet and we have a search engine there. So now I'm going to look up some examples. We get a lot of questions from there. And besides... we also receive questions from YouTube. That's where I get my inspiration when... No one is calling and someone is banging away. Our neighbor...

Been banging all morning. Okay. Let's start with, do you have anything from this week? Yes, I just wanted to point something out. We had the loan sister Cassidy here the last few days and she said something to me that I thought was interesting. You weren't there when she said this, but it was, Mormons have no excuses these days.

Anyone who is a member of the LDS Church has no excuse for being a member of that church. And it's really true. If you're a member of that church, it's your fault. Everyone in the world has done enough to wake you up. It's your fault. And it's funny, because back in the day, when I got kicked out of the Mormon church, it was my fault.

It's your fault if you leave. And I think the world should say to Mormons today, if you're a Mormon, it's your fault. There is enough evidence for everything to show that it is not Christianity. And yet they keep doing it. So while we allow people in, supposedly accept them, and don't judge their relationship with their church, the bottom line is...

If you want to stay, it's just like I'm sticking with the dividend industry and it's your fault. Yes. I wonder, for some reason I want to say the same thing about Christianity, but I don't feel the same urge because I don't think the truth about Christianity is that widely known. Beats. I think the untruths about Christianity are very prevalent right now.

Yes, and you're right. The real Christians have no idea that... it will ultimately be their fault. Yeah, well, you started it. I think you played a big role in the Mormons... hopefully the... have placed the responsibility on them to now find out for themselves. Yes. You contributed to that. And that snowball has continued to roll.

It's like we're building on the work of everyone who came before us, Sandra Tanner and the tanners. And then we actually did the first online attack. John Dean did it and we did it at the same time. Yes, you paved the way for these influencers. They think it's so easy now to criticize Mormonism. Just try it earlier.

Yes, yes. With your entire family being Mormon and the information not being public at the time. It was a completely different story. Yes. Now a pastor visits the Mormons and he gets a lot of viewers. That man must know what he's talking about when he talks about it. Nothing. They just want to do their own thing.

Would you like to answer that? What is Jesuwan's position on homosexuality and same-sex relationships? Well, Jesuan's position is faith and love. That is Yeshúan's position. And that means that whatever your faith is, that is between you and God. And your love is between you and God. You are an individual and responsible for yourself.

We believe that the Fall is all consequences of the world. And that's why the Fall introduced everything that deviated from God's plan for Adam and Eve. You can call it a deviation call it whatever. It's not that I judge people because I myself in many ways am deviant because of the fall.

So they have a deviation and it is no worse or better than mine. Ultimately, we all have them. God saved us from it. It is up to the homosexual to decide which way he or she wants to go. Are they going to build faith? Are they going to live in disbelief? Are they going to be humble? Are they going to be proud? These are all questions we need to ask ourselves. And the sexuality of it is not an important aspect for me.

I just want to add that I find it bizarre that there is such a... unbalanced focus on lies compared to other things. You know why not idolatry? Why don't we look at people and be bothered by their idolatry? Because that happens much more often. Looking at the entire Bible, I feel that the warnings against sin are much more focused on idolatry, and that is the biggest culprit.

Idolatry, unbelief, that's the main one. Yes. When we look at the Hof van Ede and the fact that it concerns a man and a woman, we completely miss the heart of the matter. Yes, there was a man and a woman. That's part of it. We can talk about it, but it's just a small part of the big picture. Whole, we make the largest.

Sin book of. So, Tad says, we judge people with religious beliefs in the same way. I do. I don't judge them. It's their choice. I mean, their faith, their love, their choice. Yes, and? I also think there is a difference, not so much in judgment, but in responsibility of people who are leaders in a religion.

Leaders are responsible for what they put out there. That doesn't necessarily make them more condemned, but it does require them to be able to tolerate criticism when they say something incorrectly. Do you agree? Yes, and I absolutely agree with Delaney, just like Jack Mychurch. Yes, I completely agree with that.

And if we go by the Bible, and everyone quotes the Bible about homosexuality, so let's also quote the Bible about religiosity. As Tad already indicated, that is the core of the Bible if we go by that. But I think there is definitely an understanding for people who are religious. Yes, I agree with that. That's a very good point.

If you want to analyze the Bible, imagine you have 10,000 scales. Where then gets the most attention in the Bible? And that is idolatry first and foremost. Yes. And that shifts the balance completely. If you add homosexuality into the mix, it's like putting two drops in a bucket of 10 million. All the most heated discussions are about the least important things because they are the most controversial.

Yes, no one. Protests against murderers, because generally everyone thinks murderers don't do the right thing. But that's much higher on the list. Thou shalt not kill is one of the Ten Commandments. There are no ten commandments. It's just incredible. Okay. And then Supernatural1110 says, thank you, Jesus Christ.

Hallelujah. And a lot of small gestures, hands clapping. We don't have a lot of questions on YouTube at the moment. I'm trying to look at the AI ​​questions. Let's look them up. AI questions There is a whole list of them. Let's choose one. I see mine. You use your own search engine, right? But someone's calling here. It's an unknown number.

Okay, he wants to ruin the atmosphere. Ruin, ruin the atmosphere. Ruin, ruin the atmosphere. Ruin, ruin the atmosphere. Ruin, ruin the atmosphere. Hello, you are live. Hi, sorry, I'll wait a while with your question. One moment, okay, go ahead. Why should we believe the Bible at all? I think that's a good question. Yes, me too. Why did we say believe the Bible in the first place? I think that's a good question.

Yes, me too. Why do you say that? Well, I mean, I believe in it because I've tested it. It gives insights from different people groups from different cultures and, um, you know, it gives us observations about what they thought about God. observations about what they thought about God.

And I think, hey, studying it is helpful to someone whether or not they believe in God and then if they believe in God, it helps you to get to know him better when you discover that those statements are consistent. That's why I read it. No, go ahead. No, go ahead. It's okay. Is this your concept of God developed from the Bible or did it come? Your concept of God first from religion? What came first for you, belief in God or belief in the Bible? For me, the concept of God came from religion. The Mormons told me he was anthropomorphic.

The Christians told me he was a Trinitarian and religion taught me that first. So I continued with those beliefs and then read the Bible until I discovered that the Bible supports neither. That clarified my understanding of God, but it didn't teach me to believe in a God who existed before I knew who he was.

That's right, EHM, why? I don't actually know you, but have you ever read or studied other texts, such as the Quran or the Bhagavad Gita, or other texts that describe and describe God? What does that do for you? Yes, it broadens my perspective and allows me to, I have read the Bhagavad Gita, and I've read a lot of the Quran, and I've read the Book of Mormon, and And I have read other religious texts, but also philosophy, of course.

I think all those things help me understand God better. In our family we believe that no information is harmful. We think all information helps broaden our perspective. The question for me is, what is going to help me understand what I have come to see as the true and living God? Why? to see Him as the true and living God.

Why? Because it makes sense, from beginning to end, in the story from genesis to revelation, what this God did in real time with real people and real genetics and how He brought salvation to the world. That makes more sense to me than some of the statements in other saints writings. More logical than some statements in other saints. Writings. However, you argue that there are people of other religions who can have the right mind without the same ontological knowledge.

Absolutely, and they never have to read a Bible and still know God like I do. Yes. Fascinating, fascinating, so. If there are multiple ways to know God, why focus on one like the Bible? Why not teach openly from all those avenues? Well, the reason I don't openly teaching from all those avenues is because it was not my belief in the Bible nor my personal belief in anything else.

It was... my own discovery of who Yeshua was and that subjective experience changed the course of my life. So while I will read the other books, Yeshua is not the key to my understanding of God, the incarnation of God in human form. That's interesting. That's interesting to me, or rather, you've stuck to using the loan description because it makes the most sense to you because you've essentially had a personal experience with Yeshua.

Absolutely, and it is absolutely subjective and it is absolutely just my experience, I have taken no authority from it. And I readily admit that I could be wrong. But what I've done is asked someone to give me an alternative to give that makes more sense and better, and I haven't heard it yet. Interesting, okay.

So what is then the central message you proclaim? Well, our central message, in summary, is that God created a world. Man decided to take control of the world into his own hands instead of doing what God wanted. And man fell into an irreparable condition. And God so loved us all, believers and non-believers, that he became man, lived among us in a man named Jesus, and did what we could not do.

And he did it for us unconditionally. And then he ascended into heaven. And he left us in a state that resembled the Garden of Ede, where we all now stand before him. All sin is taken away. standing in front of him. All sin is taken away.

He has made it clear in terms of justice, in terms of mercy, and it is now an individual choice for each to look for him or not. That is essentially Jesuwan's perspective. That's a very biblical story, a very biblically oriented story. I would probably say. Oh, it's me completely agree. Fine. May I ask one more question, if I may, on that point? My understanding of it and I want to ask a few more quick questions to see if we're talking about a agree on a few things. Okay.

So God created Adam and Eve in the garden, you know, and he told them not to eat of the tree of knowledge. Right, so far so good. Well, I suppose that's true, but in what way exactly, I can't say. Literally or figuratively, I don't know. But that's the story I'm going with. But that's the story I'm going with. My dilemma with this is, if Adam and Eve were created without knowledge of good and evil and then were told not to do something, how would they have known that disobeying that order would be bad? Does that make sense? It makes perfect sense. And this is what also appears in the Old Testament. It's not just about Adam and Eve. It's called deontological ethics, do you do what God, your creator, says or not. It has nothing to do with the theology of God.

to do with your knowledge or your assets. God simply told Adam and Eve, don't do it. You guys will die. I don't know if they understood that, but he said it. Will they do it? And that is actually the core of the relationship between man and God. He said it, should we do it? Or do we say, hm, I think another alternative would be fine. That's how I see it. This perspective assumes that he arranged that and then took full care of it through Christ.

There is no ongoing trial going on. We are free because of Christ, work. We are all free to choose. We don't believe in eternal punishment or anything like that. not in eternal punishment or anything like that. We think that he has arranged it and that we are free to choose it if we want, in the same way the garden was arranged, but without the punishment.

So? Yes, that's kind of the intention. I guess it may not make sense to you, but it doesn't to me. Can I give you a reciprocal example to see if this becomes clearer? Please, please. Suppose you have a son. He is five years old. The son understands. He knows how to name his dinosaurs. He knows how to clean his room.

That's what he was taught. Apparently Adam and Eve had the ability to name the animals give. They were intelligent. They could take care of the garden. They could control the animals. Him was not a blank slate. He had options. Imagine you have a son, but you say to him, look, I want you to do this A, but I definitely don't want you to do this B.

And the son says, I don't understand why. And you say, listen, do you think I love you? Yes, am I your father? Yeah, well, you won't understand for a while, maybe never. But now I want you to trust me. This is the essence of the relationship between God and man. I created you, Adam and Eve. They knew he was their creator.

They knew he was God and that they were perfect. So he said to them in that perfect state, trust me, eat only from this other tree. So that's the real mystery. The issue is not whether they had the capacity to know, whether they were guilty, or anything like that. What matters is that he said don't do it, and they did it anyway.

And I don't see that fall as something bad, I know that sounds scary to say, it was bad and it brought sin, but it was also the result of their own choice, which is a good thing. And you know, it sounds so bad that we're all sinful because of them now, but I don't think it's necessarily that bad from this perspective.

I don't even think that... Sorry, I'm going to take the microphone for a moment, but I just want to say this. No, no, no. I've been taken over, Delaney. I want to say this. When we look at people, I don't point out or accuse anyone of anything wrong or blame anyone. When I look at people, I don't point out or accuse anyone of anything wrong or blame anyone.

But I do think that if we look at the model, the only person people could ever blame is Adam. And this is why, he was created perfect. He had no corruption, impurity, or sin. He knew God. He was with him in the garden and chose the woman. He simply said, I'm going to do what you told me not to do, even though I know what you said I should do. And he rebelled. That's the culprit.

Now I don't think he is literally guilty, but he is the only human being who is truly guilty. The rest of us are byproducts of that and the circumstances therein. Well, that's quite a reaction. I find that the most likely explanation is usually the simplest and it seems that there are many narrative constructions and presuppositions that make it difficult for me to make it make sense as it might make sense for you.

Well, that's okay. And we accept that, we understand that and we accept that as part of your faith and we don't dispute that. We understand that and we accept that as part of your faith and we do not dispute that. Yes, yes. Well folks, I don't want to confiscate the microphone myself, but I wish you a nice weekend.

Nice talking to you, man. Thanks for calling. Goodbye. Okay. Yes, I agree with him. You know, and basically he asked why you would study the Bible. That is why I study the Bible, to better understand the scene in the Garden of Ede. Yes. For him it is now, point what is that again, a razor. or who was that again, Willem van Willem or someone who said that the simplest answer is the easiest.

That's philosophy. And I get it, you know. But the thing is, people think we're oversimplifying it. Like, oh, someone else is calling. Oh, good. Hey, you're on the air. Hey guys, this is Bleek, aka Leppard Messiah. Hey, Leppard Messiah, how are you? Yes. Um, I have something that might be a little bit off, but...

I wanted to hear your opinion on this. I wanted to hear your opinion on this. We have a family friend who is Catholic and he claims he can't eat pork. When we ask him why, because I've never heard that from Catholics and it may be common, but I haven't had much to do with it just because I don't know many, but he says that in Leviticus it says we shouldn't eat pork.

And I... I don't know, I feel like it was taken out of context. And I was wondering what you think. Yes, what do you think? Leviticus tells parents to stone their children if they disobey. I mean, I think it's really ridiculous for everyone I know. We used to have Messianic Jews coming together here. They were Jews who believed in Jesus, but they obeyed all the laws and we let them use our building and it was a really special scene, you know.

Yes, yes. I really appreciate it. No, I just wanted to say that your rachiochristie pointed out that some people interpret the fact that something is in the Bible as instruction without context, and I mean, that's kind of like, this is in the Bible, murder is in it, so you have to kill your son. There are so many things in the Bible. So yeah, it's actually free.

Simple to tell him that and I don't understand how they justify it. Hey, pay attention! Leper Messiah, I have a question for you. You are on a desert island. You can take one album with you for a year. Which album are you taking with you? Oh, Master of Puppets of course. Okay man. I appreciate you, man. Thanks, brother. Nice to talk to you. Yes, you too. See you later. Bye. It's funny.

You know, those Metallica guys really bring up dark themes like hopelessness and violence. And yet sometimes I have heard even worse themes from Christian churches. So sorry, I just like... Good music, 100% good music. Uhm, we have a question from the forums app. Matthew submitted a question about LDS members in prison.

I was just watching an episode of Mormon Stories a few days ago. Another bishop was arrested and charged with 18 counts of child sex abuse dating back decades. So here's the question, are there specific or preferred prisons for LDS members in Utah or elsewhere? If not, these guys are dead. I know little about the Mormon power structure.

It sounds like something they would have, probably hidden under the Mormon Mall of Temples. No, they do not have their own prison system, but the church does have influence over Juto's social services, including their prisons and hospitals. They are certainly big on their prisons and courts and they run them like a tightly organized ship.

tightly organized ship. EHM and TAT posted a quote from Matthew 25 on 46 in the forums and it will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life. What do you think about that? Did I read that last week? Yes, we have. We talked about last week that eternal is translated from another word.

It doesn't necessarily mean forever. And then there are a few other answers that we gave TAT. I'll stick to something I'm interested in right now. Just kidding. Robert Ridgway says Alice in Chains. That's Matthew here. The same one that the prison asked question.

The same one who asked the prison question says Alice in Chains unsticks it album he would take with him. That's not a bad album. Have you... Me too. Those dark harmonies. Which album would you take with you? Could it be Beyoncé? I love Beyoncé. I am... Love Beyoncé. Will... Don't be mad at me. I know they probably don't... Gets angry. You believe and love music, you might tell me you like the Mormon Tabernacle Choir for example.

I'd say go, I know. I'm in a weird musical mood right now. Are there Mormon churches in prison? Oh yeah, no, century, Mormon churches in prison. I think the policy has changed. They are now allowing their priesthood leaders to go to prison and administer the sacrament, whereas previously they said that prisoners who were members of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints were not worthy to receive the sacrament while incarcerated. That's gracious of them.

Uhm, I was working on this. Can you summarize the first caller's problem with the garden? Can you summarize the first caller's problem with the garden? Yes, the problem with that first caller is that God told them not to do something that they didn't understand what it would mean. So therefore... Its consequences.

Not the consequences, what good and evil meant, why. And I know it doesn't seem fair, but the reality is that it comes down to the basic principle. Do you trust me or not? Yes, I just see it, it actually seems very simple to me. I feel like he's making it complicated. Me, too. It seems. Yes, Sarah, tell us which album you would take to a desert island. Everyone listening, tell us which album you would take with you to a desert island.

Everyone listening, tell us which album you would take with you to a desert island. What was your answer? You know what? I can't. There are so many and they come in all shapes and sizes. I know that... There's metal, there's country. I mean, there are a few Dixie Chicks albums that are that good. I know. Those are my favorites.

There are albums that... I mean, there are albums that show that God has given us the talent to make beautiful music that is really profound. I don't think I can answer that. That's quite difficult. I like to learn from others. I'm not going to choose just one album. I could choose a favorite star in the sky.

That's funny. Okay. Being able to choose your favorite star in the sky is funny, okay favorite star in the sky she says there are too many albums i can't just choose one oh like that oh i thought she said that her favorite rock star would go to heaven i would like to see axel rose in the kingdom of god we're getting tired here, we're really really tired, I tell you.

Um, okay. Because it seems so to me. You know, that's why people can take it allegorically, but I just don't think you can blame Adam. He was given this assignment, but God had arranged it so that he could choose. That's what he did. It was a matter of choosing God or not. And what you don't know, no one knows what the consequences are of what he does.

Right? And it's so simple. Yeah, and I don't think they ever knew. They were taken out of the garden and they lived, and one son killed the other. And I don't think they knew that was the cause. It's just the result of him giving us a choice and that. He continued to work with us. He just wasn't there. Yeah, so it's not that complicated for me.

And what has become even clearer to me is the fact that they knew him. They didn't even have to believe. They knew him just as Satan knew him and were in rebellion came. Exactly, that's the point. Yes, it wasn't a question of, are you going to believe in something you still have never heard. Right, and that's what a lot of people make such a big deal about. Yes, yes, that's good.

Elvis. Elvis has, oh, he has a few compilations. Sam Cooke has a few compilations. Elvis has, oh, he has a few compilations. Sam Cooke has a few compilations. Cash has a few compilations. I have a really hard time with that, like suitcase compilations where you get all these different songs. There's a Metallica suitcase album.

On which each of their big hits is performed four times. Wow, so there are four versions of the same song by different people and there are a lot of them. It's incredible. Just look that up. Delaney and I are crazy about a girl who does nothing but suitcases. She has her own songs, but her trunks are so good.

Great music. I don't know, guys. It's not easy. But I know I wouldn't just say I would record an album made by God. Those are all mine. What is your understanding of the sacrament of the Lord's Supper? The Holy Communion, the Eucharist, which believers wait for, the Second Coming that Paul speaks about in 1 Corinthians 11 verse 26.

Yes, I believe that the Sacrament of Communion does all those things through believers were done until he returned. And that was his commandment according to Paul who said that quote quoted. Paul says that Christ She, do this until I come. So it was up to them to do it then, and now, whatever you want to do.

Why does Jan mention Genesis 3 verse 5 in Songs of the Spirit? Have I read that yet? As the words of God, when it is clearly the serpent. Probably a mistake on my part when I said, the words of God, because it's in the Bible. That sounds like a mistake I may have made. Okay. EHM. Any comments? David Sandborn. I don't know who that is.

Do you know that? No. What kind of music is that? Todd and my stepmother used to burn their own CDs and they would make mixes of Metallica, Mozart and Simon & Garf. Wow. I love that. Oh, David Sanborn is a musician. Yes, do you know who that is? I know. I think he's a saxophonist or something. Oh, that could be possible. Yes, wait.

Todd, I remember one of our first conversations was about music. You are very fond of music. Do you like jazz? Oh dear, yes, that was... I completely forgot. That feels different. Yeah, there's a few jazz albums in there, you know. Don't know. Yes. EHM. Oh, there are so many questions. EHM, I mean, you gave Lee about this, but what sources do you cite to support your claim that Jahaba is the correct pronunciation? I learned this from our friend Adnan.

He did all the research and sent me documents which I then studied for a few weeks. The sources are ancient Paleo-Hebrew, as it is thought to have been spoken, and connections to Hebrew rope patterns. And also the Maserites, the Jews who gave us the vow marks and made us be. Name Yahweh or Jehovah statements, those sources have proven to be incorrect.

Or we said, those sources have proven to be incorrect. Putting all that together, through elimination, and because Eve, father, breath, and love are all related to even, I tend to believe that Yahweh is the better statement. And? That's why I'm really convinced. That's my opinion and I'm happy to take stands on what I believe and not care about it.

And that's what I have tattooed all over my body. Back to the question of why the Bible. Yes, can we perhaps go into it a little deeper? Because people are welcome to give their opinion in the chat. Because people are welcome to give their opinion in the chat. There's the historical underpinnings, all those things you've talked about before, even recently with Richa Christie.

EHM, the Confirmation by various writers over time. So no other book has that, correct? Not as the Bible has it, and also the prophecies in the Bible. That's really the most important thing. And the New Testament substantiates that, unlike the Jews. Is that correct? Okay, so prophecies. And then? But I think you would also argue that we...

being able to reach the mind through other books, other ways of learning. Absolute. I am inspired to have and seek God love as I do. Read Les Miserables. Wouldn't you mind just bringing that up? Because it's so hard to get people to see the perspective of the Bible, because I think if you really look at it closely, it turns out to be a supernatural book.

I don't know how that book came to be as described and what scholars say happened to bring it into existence. I don't know how, in terms of storylines and all those cross-pollinations, it can be so coherent without having supernatural elements in it. The Book of Mormon, the Pearl of Great Price, Bek Fakita, and the Koran, by comparison, contain none of these things.

Are they all books by one author? Um, the Quran is Gabriel talking to Mohammed in a cave. I'm not sure where the source of evidence for this lies, but I'm sure several authors contributed to it. The Book of Mormon was of course written by one author who claims there were multiple authors. And then about all the claims that try to completely debunk the Bible, in the same way they debunk everything else, and conspiracy.

Yes, what do you think? Do you like that? Well, I guess it comes down to this, your depth of knowledge of the Bible determines how you defend your position, and my depth of knowledge of the Bible is not just linguistic. It comes from the way my mind works, in terms of themes that are so broad, and that's how I teach, they come together and form something that I can't find anywhere else.

Yes. I mean, folks, I just don't understand the Bible question. I feel like you're the most reasonable about it. You are so centrally focused on it. are the most reasonable about it. You are so centrally focused on it. But you believe that it's not necessary to access the mind, all those things.

People use the Bible for movies to write. You don't have to believe in it to think that it is a substantial work life reflects again. Yeah, take The Founding Fathers for example, which is funny when it comes to Christian nationalism. I mean, most of them, Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, didn't believe in a supernatural Jesus. They didn't believe in it, but they quoted the Bible because it is full of wisdom.

It contains great lessons to ponder, and that is not disputed by atheist scholars. to think about and that is not disputed by atheist scholars. So when people tell me this and this is just my opinion when someone the Bible criticizes and criticizes, then this is what happens when you read it. You become convinced and you really see what God seems to be saying to man and you have to making a choice and that's not fun. People don't want to read it because it sounds archaic or tri-constructed and all that kind of stuff to them.

But ultimately, if you read Genesis through revelation in depth, you will be convinced. Yes, and I think it exposes their naivety to read the Bible from so long ago and criticize it for being biased. from so long ago and criticize it because it would be tribal. As if everything you read from that time is the same.

What do you say to that? Totally agree. But they do read Shakespeare and... Greek tragedies. Yes. Jess, David, that seems like a jazz lover. He has this. That's terrible jazz. And I see Tad just sitting there with a cup of coffee in the morning, looking out over a meadow and listening to jazz. He is a very calm man, I can imagine he enjoys that. That's great.

Yes, I think so too. That's cool. I think you like experimental music now. I feel like you sent me music now and I didn't listen to it. Those poor people, they must have really good taste in music. And... What else do we have there, Del? Well, I was looking at Bob's gita, EHM. Oh, who wrote that? Yes, the...

Author. To be clear. I'm sure they'll say it's not fully known. The author is the sage Vyasa, also known as Krishna the Vepayana. He composed the text as an episode within the larger epic of another book. Okay. And then there is the Taiching. I think that it is the Taiching.

Is that part of Taoism? And I have a friend who does that has translated. That's another one. I think that pretty much all comes from one man. Yeah, am I crazy if I think there is someone named Tao Dou? Yes, Dou is me. I don't think that's his name. He has a different name. We're so ignorant here. Crazy. But you know, that's why we know that God knows. Oh no, noisy zoo. Yes.

Okay, but all one. That's a huge... Difference. As one author... versus multiple authors writing about one person. Enormous. That's... incomparable. Yes. And several authors from different areas and different times who write and bring their work together and do not contradict each other, unless there's a mistake with the date or something, not contradictory to the overall theme, that's what makes it really radical.

And if you then translate it into the apostolic record in the Old Testament, there is no contradiction. translated into the apostolic record in the Old Testament, then there is no contradiction. There's debate, there are scholars who say, oh, this contradicts each other, that doesn't, but the way I read it, when it comes to the spiritual thread of the book's composition, I see no contradiction.

Okay, so there's the book. It's so interesting that all the other... Yes. There were other people who performed miracles at that time. Jesus was not one of them. So what makes him different? Yes. That must be his resurrection. That's the... Core. And that theme is repeated in both testaments. Okay, the resurrection types, images, shadows, and actual verses.

Okay. So that's where it comes together in one man's story, and he had witnesses to his resurrection. Okay. Okay. Why? It's just focused on that. It makes me feel less worthy. No, I didn't mean it that way. I didn't mean it that way. I just wanted to... Just show that they're not talking about things that are so sacred that they're forbidden.

They have it about the foolishness of people like Peter. He was the apostle, man, and he messed up over and over again. It shows that David was truly a failure, yet a man after God's own heart. These kinds of things are taken from religious texts. They want to make it so that in the Book of Mormon there are only heroes and villains.

Only heroes and villains, or villains who convert and become heroes. That's all you get. Sai, yes, it is censored. The Bible shows us the complexity of man. Okay, that seems correct. Ehm, and then it just becomes so long-winded, because there are no questions. And while you're rambling on, Sarah says, it's so interesting that all religious scriptures are written by one author.

And it really is, yes. And that's something to use as a backdrop to your position on the Bible, because it's a beautiful book, considering its authorship. use it for your position on the Bible, because it is a beautiful book, considering the authorship. It's really interesting how much weight people give to debunking Christ, but no one tries to invalidate the Old Testament.

Everyone seems to think that this call for criticism of Genesis is more aimed at debunking Christianity than Judaism, in my opinion. Like they're not even trying. Jews are Jews and everyone just accepts that they have a real holy text that is real and historical, but not the New Testament. I don't know why that is.

Me neither. And I don't know why there aren't so many groups trying to debunk Buddha. Or Krishna or Mohammed. Nobody tries that. No, they want to deny Yeshua. But I think that's because of an American, I think imperialist mentality. Yes. And lately, how do you say that? They glorify Eastern culture as some kind of escape to ourselves or something.

EHM and our understanding of those lyrics is really childish. So we think it's all great. I'm sure there are critics of Buddha. I'm sure there are. The radical punks are against Buddha. Ehm, I really grew up at night because I can't stop thinking. So I watch everything I can in terms of what could be good entertainment.

And I've been doing that since I was a kid. I pay attention to sets. I watch what happens on set. And since it... By the mid-1980s, maybe a little earlier, Buddhas started popping up in almost every cool series. Buddhas are always present in Friends. He does not appear in Seinfeld, but in other series, like How I Met Your Mother, Buddha makes an appearance.

And why Buddha and why not Jesus, right? You will rarely find Jesus there. They sell Buddhas at Pottery Barn or something. There's a reason for that. He doesn't hold you responsible. And that is something the Bible does with Jesus. So, he won't be popular. Wow, that's interesting. Ehm? Okay. Well, we have eight minutes left and I have no more questions, friends.

EHM What can we talk about besides David Sandborn? The popular CD compilations that Sarah's mother made, including Metallica, Mozart and Simon and Garfield. I would have that same sound, those same CD mixes. Great! Ehm, someone said I would say that's not the case with Seinfeld, but that was a Sarah and she thinks that's different when it comes to Seinfeld.

EHM, that's something I like about Seinfeld. They make fun of everything. They don't. Nothing is sacred there. EHM, next fall, Jean-Pierre Baptiste. Yeah, I'm really excited about that. We have another episode of What's The Next Ratio, Christy, in a week. We have a Ratio, Christy, on Monday June 15th at 5pm.

I'm almost certain, here in the studio. And we will improve our approach even further. First, Delaney will kick off and lay the groundwork because we think that's more effective. Second, Danny will come back and talk about reaching out to Mormons. And third, Tad will come and talk about his earlier days as a street evangelist and apologist for Christianity.

Speaking of Tad, he's live. He's live. Hey, Tad. Speaking of Tad, he's live. He's live. Hey, Tad. Hey guys, your Joker describes my morning with coffee and a metal. Is that correct? I like rock'n'roll. Don't know. Sometimes, okay. If I'm right once, that's enough for me. Yes, it's funny. Yes. Hey, I called just before you guys wrapped up the broadcast and I asked, Sean, what do you think philosophically about everything that God allows regarding religion and most people who don't interpret it the same way you do? EHM, I can agree with Jeshuin's perspective that it is there in the best sense of the word actually

doesn't matter, because ultimately, if we think of fulfillment and all that Christ accomplished for us, the destruction of material religion in 70 AD, then the world's religions are in fact irrelevant. So it is the heart that is judged by faith. We've spent a lot of time talking about the Bible and I love it.

I try, like Jesus, to bring people closer to the truth, based on our subjective conclusions, which is certainly reasonable. But in the end, and I know this is a strange question in some ways, it really does matter. Because God is sovereign, he works out all these things and what people do not understand here and now may become clear later. I think he is a God of victory.

I think he is a god of victory. I believe that unless their own will holds them back. That's the only reservation I have about that. Delaney, did you want to say anything? I would just like to say that. The point here is that it enriches this life here. It makes it harder, but it makes it so much richer. And I think through this study we can come closer to a better understanding of life and finding purpose.

So people looking for it, wherever they look for it, that's it. It's not about whether he will reward them for that or in the afterlife, because we don't know. But we do know that it works in its own way here. Do you agree? I have a feeling you won't agree with that, but... No, I disagree with the fly that just landed on your hand.

I think I agree with what you said. Todd, what do you think? Well, it makes me think because I have heard lessons from you in the past and based on what I have read from Paul, exanasis is real. Yes. And I'm not sure I'm doing the right thing about entering the Kingdom with three doors on each of the four walls open day and night.

And how we exist there. Depends on how well we've loved down here. And you know, I get questions from people who say, what does it look like beyond that kingdom? And of course I don't have an answer to that, well, neither do I. But, I think it's more. Well, go ahead. I think it's more. Well, go ahead. Oh, I was just going to say that I think the love we practice here is more than a theological meaning of the word, as Delaney just described. I think that's right. But it seems to me that we try to love almost in a selfish way. You know, it's agape love. It may be selfless, sacrificial and unconditional, but it is, you know, for our own benefit in the coming Kingdom.

So that we can show Christ more in our acts of love, so that we benefit from them in that coming Kingdom. Yeah, so we're working towards something. Yes, we are working toward greater glory that God gives us. To me, it seems that that glory comes from our willingness to submit to him from our hearts. Our body can't do it perfectly.

So it must come from our hearts. And I don't know. I think that is the trial of this life. I think that's why we're here. And that's what I tried to focus my thoughts on. Why are we here? What is the purpose of what he did? And what does that mean in the afterlife? Because the Mormons have one of those clear-cut process that they prescribe to us and I don't think that will last.

So I really think, and Tad, Delaney and I have talked about this more, that it is the merciful heart, not the love, but the merciful heart, that really matters, and the humility of faith in the person in question. Delaney, do you have anything to add? I actually just see it that way, because I have a problem with Christians who base everything on the afterlife because it is unknown.

And while I do believe in what you just said, and I hope that's the case, I almost wonder if the reward, as you said earlier, Dad, includes. Reward, as you said earlier, Dad, means. That you sacrifice yourself. That's the reward. So whether it's here or there, I think we'll do that there too. And so I see the new Jerusalem as something that begins in this life.

And that's the benefit, I think more fruit is borne if you approach it in faith, rather than by the knowledge that we're going to have in that life or something like that. Do you understand what I mean and I would like to agree with the lenitat, and maybe you will agree with that too, but I think that the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven will be the most glorified and therefore the...

Servants will be. The servants. They will be the Yeshuas of the Kingdom, the servants, and not the ones presented as great. the oas of the kingdom are, the servants, and not those who are presented as great. Yes, I think there is some truth to that.

It's really affected how, at least it's affected me over the last few years, especially with the group around Ratio Christi, or well, you name a group, group But ultimately, in the best possible way, I don't care what their final conclusion is. Because I know I have no control over their fate, where they go, how they think, how they love and how God judges their hearts accordingly.

So how ridiculous I determined aspects of religions also find Hinduism, Mormonism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Roman Catholicism, You name it, I just don't think that's what God's primary focus is. There I am... I agree. There I am... I agree. But yeah... Het heeft dus geen zin om je echt te ergeren of boos te maken als mensen. Showing a lack of grace because we disagree with them.

And that is one of the advantages of the Jesuan faith, which I hope people also see. People can become unkind and a normal reaction to that is to be put off, but this Jesuan faith... Because perspective has really allowed me to think, they're just not there yet. Do you know what I mean? Yes, and you hope for that.

And I don't know, man, it changes a lot. It changes the perspective from debating and arguing to reasoning with people and just trusting. You know, you're not there yet, but maybe. I trust that God will bring you to it somehow, but I don't know, sorry to ramble, but it just is. Especially when it comes to relationships, even if they show up to add fuel to their fire, to tell the kids what not to do.

I truly believe that the seeds that are planted may open their minds later. And I guess that's why you allow them to keep coming to your studio to think about what you're offering. That's a good assumption, you're absolutely right. Yes. Hey, brother, we gotta start a leadership meeting. We're out of time.

Oops, I'm so sorry. It... It's good. I'll talk to you later. Okay, brother. We love you. Thank you. Okay. Keep watching. Goodbye. All.