Our Last Epiphany

Our Last Epiphany | Heart of the Matter EPIPHANY

Transcripts:

Hello, you're live. Hello, I didn't hear the slap. Did you do it? This is what she does. She says, okay, Dad, now listen carefully. Right before we go on, I'm going to go. And then you'll know. To be honest, I forgot that I said I was going to do that. She's got a lot on her brain. But anyway, this is heart of the matter epiphany uh show 23 and it will be the last epiphany um of the of the year because next week we're starting into a whole new game we'll explain all that but we wanted to get into a few updates

understand that right now at this present moment most of these shows are to our audience who follow us to some extent or another. Yeah, it's for the archives. Yeah, for the archives. Get things in there that we anticipate as certain things begin to boil up, that the ministry is changing and that we're gonna be busy with other things.

And so we're just trying to keep you guys informed and this will be so the last kind of time where we talk specifically about lds things because why because we're well there's a lot of reasons but moving into a more urgent way of approaching it i think the lds can be pulled in with a larger group of problematic people maybe or or they're they're they're also getting attacks from every direction right you know so we're just another you know and you can find out anything we talk about most almost anything somewhere else to some degree i do think the yeshuan perspective

is unique but um yeah yeah we we want uh the whole sean the baptist thing to start to take more of our time and that will be explained more probably next week but let's begin with an update on the ministry. So there's been two Roscio Christi groups in the last month or so, and we're doing another one this coming Monday, June 15th.

It will be at 5 p.m., and there will be more people, including Todd this time, our friend who is a former, how would you describe what he was before i would describe him as a former ardent old school apologist and argued yeah like on the street kind of guy yeah and he's come to understand the eshwin way and he's going to be speaking yeah I'm really excited for that.

Danny, I'll be introducing it, and then you'll have the big discussion. Yeah. So that's this Monday. We do the Sunday teachings. There's an 8 a.m. Matthew verse-by-verse. There's a 10 a.m. Sunday schooled. There's a 10 a.m. Sunday schooled. And we're starting a new series on Sunday School this week. Really? Yeah. What's that called? We finished the Mortal Messiah, Victorious Christ.

And this week we are going to start talking about the kingdom and what it really means in the world today versus what it means to most evangelicals. Oh, I'm excited for that. That's going to be, yeah. All the Sunday schools, he's done them in series. These are topical biblical teachings, more or less. And the past few series have been incredible in explaining kind of what we're about.

So check them out. Check that out. But I'm really excited for that the kingdom you know what I'm also excited about is Delaney is literally crafted a leadership program for us and we've had our second meeting with a group of like ten people from all over the world and they get with us and they're great souls and they have different beliefs and different lives and they all do assignments and write papers and we discuss them and we do that so that we can collect a body of thinkers.

We call them our think tank and those thinkers having gone through the leadership training, voice their opinion on certain things. And we listen to their advice. Yeah. Yeah. It's been really wonderful. This is our third annual and each year, the think tank that has been resulting from the graduates of that program, it has added so much to our ministry and like even yeshuans as An organization kind of started from that.

So yeah, yeah And we encourage you to to sign up and join because you'll grow you'll learn. It's your own pace your own Contributions and you're free to believe what you want. Yes um A couple more things you might notice. We were doing social media. We pulled back that we're planning on Sean the Baptist events this fall in September and October in Utah. And that is explained at meet Sean the Baptist dot com.

We've talked about it in previous episodes and we'll talk about it in future episodes but keep an eye out for that um we'll talk about it in this episode but even just one post of a silent picture is getting uh lots of hate so lots of hate yeah people people don't like it but also love from those who know us. So thank you for everybody who is following along.

Is there anything else? There's so much in the background. Those are the main things. That we're working on, but those are the things to keep in touch with right now. Delaney, since we're going to be talking about some LDS things on this last epiphany show, the first one in the news, most people know about it.

Do you know much about this Pentagon thing that's going on? Or do I know a little bit about it if you don't? I know the reports of it. I don't know the actual event event so do you want to say the event so what happens is the Pentagon has categorizations two-letter categorizations for all religions and I think it's for dog tags in the military so that your dog tag can have that ID and they recently came out with some the guy who does Trump's thing whoever he is is, and they've recategorized the two-letter symbols.

And for most, I mean, even Jehovah's Witnesses and Seventh-day Adventists are listed as Christian, Christian, Christian, Christian. But the Latter-day Saints were not. They were given their own two-letter, which is CJ, Church of Jesus Christ, but not Christian. And so in the local papers and probably everywhere else online, the LDS are up in arms that they aren't included with the rest of them.

And so I just wanted to comment on that to say, let's be fair. to comment on that to say uh let's be fair okay there's nobody more fair to the mormons about potentially being christian than us yeah but you guys from the beginning have not wanted to be associated with christianity i mean when i went on a mission the word christian was something we mocked yeah i just read that, that Joseph Smith intentionally called it the Church of Jesus Christ or something to separate itself from the Protestant Reformation.

Yes, and in the temple when I went through a Protestant, pastor is hired by Satan to come and teach people. And as missionaries, we knock on the doors and say, God told our founding prophet that all of them were a lie. So, but suddenly now they, and here's the thing, the Mormon church, the empire wants its way. It wants to have everything its way.

And all their members want things their way to not saying they're Mormon, to calling them the Church of Jesus Christ, the Latter-day Saint. They want their way in everything. They want their cake. They want to eat it too. They want to be. And that is what is happening is they're getting their own way handed to them and i love it that is really interesting that they're they really have i think chosen the wrong path by trying to be christian actually yeah like they would have um but they're trying to avoid the cult allegations you know but uh they're stronger to separate themselves from Christianity, in my opinion.

Yeah, they would have been, and they would have raised up a stronger people, more united on pro-Smith, pro-Young, pro-Prophets, but they've made a mistake. So will they return and go back on that? Maybe. Yeah, I see all the different opinions, and someone who says he's talking to Trump about changing it, which would be even more wild because it's giving speculation on Trump's goals.

Like who decided that and like what, like Trump doesn't care. No. Trump does not care. No. He cares about his power. So it's just interesting to see what might happen. He'll lose a lot of evangelical support if he does it. That's the commentary I'm seeing is Trump doesn't care, but his crew does. Yeah. His crew really cares.

So it's going to, I don't know. Yeah. But I just want to say to you, people who follow your prophet, you're getting what you've always wanted in spades and there's another thing since I have a middle daughter Cassidy has a sister older sister named Cassidy and she's she made an interesting point the other day when I was when we were Mormon and before if you left the Mormon Church the onus for leaving was on you the church its members were all about he sins, she couldn't handle it. That's what they'd say. You couldn't handle the pressure

and to being a saint. And they really threw the onus on you. And Cassidy made a really interesting point that in this day and age, anybody on earth who is still a faithful, active, believing Mormon, it's your fault. There is so much out there to show you, you are part of a big con and yet you still insist.

So if you're LDS and you're still in that church, it's on you, man. You can't say I was lied to. I didn't know. There are there's so much information. You've put on the blinders. You've ostrich stuck your head in the sand. You don't want to know the truth. It's on you. And so I have no pity for like, oh, we need to help them understand.

They know. Yeah. pity for like oh we need to help them understand they know yeah i think that's clear too in the type of work that's being done by mormons which is like um i don't even know just different like i'm like i can be a mormon and do x y and z like they know that what the criticisms are and so they're like making their own version of Mormonism and like calling that Mormonism that it's this plural thing and it's totally not so they definitely know and they're just finding ways to excuse it now and they're really getting exposed because they've always done that they're

slippery they they dodge punches they move this way they they've always done that. They're slippery. They dodge bunches. They move this way. They've always done that. But now their members are starting to look stupid. Yeah, they are. Now they're starting to be like, I'm temple worthy, but I'm sleeping with my boyfriend.

And I know God loves me. This is starting to take the wheels off. Do you feel the same about Christianity? Yeah. I mean, there's just another expression of it. starting to unwrap take the wheels off the up do you feel the same about Christianity yeah I mean there's just another expression of it Christians are becoming either more uh legalistic and strong and powerful and dogmatic or they're becoming less and they're becoming liberal and they're becoming all these other things. It's one or the other, you know.

And I think that the Yeshua approach has solved all of that. Yes. Yeah, I do too. Yeah. So that's the Mormon stuff. But we want to, before fangs get going with, um uh sean the baptist which is gonna bring a lot of unfortunate misunderstanding why don't we and just summarize epiphany up where we've been what we're doing and in your estimation what is still hard for people to understand about us well i'll be honest it's. It's, it throws me like, it throws me that too.

I, I went into Sean the Baptist actually thinking, okay, this is something people might understand like eschatology fulfillment. Um, any other theological thing you've talked about, I could see how people would be confused by it but sean the baptist talking about unity and love and like not even a mention and people haven't uh like say it's a cult to say that it is very jarring to me so i've had to really think through it this week and i don't i'm not fully steady on it but we can talk well for for starters you guys know that any time in religious circles the accusation of someone or something

being a cult is a thought-killing cliche yeah and it takes 80 90 percent of the listening audience to just say I'll never look at what they do. Yes. You know? Well, we always have to do this, but like, what is a cult? Like, why do they go? What is the thought of a person who believes in this Christian thing? And the Christian thing is there is a morally objective way to be living.

It's our duty to save people from their lost path to get onto the right path. And if you're not doing that and you're using the name of God to not do that, then you're trying to draw attention to yourself and you're a cult. Like that's, I think that's at the core of the accusation. Is that right? It seems like that's at the core of how they're using it.

Yes. That's what I mean. Like that's their, what they perceive of us as doing is like drawing attention to ourselves by taking the Lord's name in vain and twisting the Bible to this thing. Like, that's why they call it a cult. They don't call a Tucker Carlson a cult leader because he's not using the name of God. He's just reporting his opinions or something.

But so, and that's the wrong use of the word cult, first of all. Yeah. And that's, that's the starting point for us is cult you know they're really three prongs of a cult there is um a leader who's charismatic and people follow them just because of that well there's the first prong and that's the most associated prong, I think, which is why you're going to always have a hard time. Right.

But they fail to admit that everything is a cult. Yes. LeBron James is a cult leader, or Kobe, or whatever, basketball. Everything's a cult. Yeah. And so that doesn't make the thing bad. No, and most of the world understands that. People are like, I'm in the Kim Kardashian cult. People know it's cult-like and they eat it up and can separate themselves.

cult leaders do with their power so what does kim kardashian do what does lebron james do what does uh billy graham do yes they're all cult leaders right and what do we do oh oh pause it sorry we got interrupted there we were in the middle of talking about uh cults what makes someone a cult leader you said charismatic leader and then you said in the most general yes sense and everything is a cult yeah yes and then what that leader does is in question and to me how that's defined is do they require you to do x y and z what do they do is it with coercion is it do they make you agree with them i think that's at the core of it do they require that you agree

with them to have value in their eyes and also to follow and agree with them and then do what they say. Yes. Including giving money, attend this, do that. Believe this. Believe this. Like whatever it is. So that's where there's rub. Like I definitely understand that you are a charismatic person. individual and um as are many like pastors oh yeah that's like accepted yes so like that so yeah i almost want to go through each thing and be like christians say this but they they follow charismatic people so that's like a ridiculous yeah to to discount someone just because they're charismatic is ridiculous. But then

it is definitely important to look at what the person requires of the other people around them. I understand cults to be about control, mind control. We've had cult experts speak at the cult conference, and that seems like it's at the core of it is a it's a la a restriction of the freedom of mind is that right yeah and that's that's the that's the worst form of a cult right because then they get you to drink the kool-aid yes right but when they use the word it brings in all of that connotation.

Yeah. And it doesn't differentiate. Yeah. So is it's just like like if if if someone said that beautiful watermelon I brought from the store, you just molested it. You're a molester. That's that they take that terrible word that was used in that specific instance and they make it and so it's a thought-killing cliche and it's really unfortunate because like you just said we do not meet in any way a cult in the in the negative sense of control, asking people to believe what we say, taking and demanding they do

anything. And all we do is promote their liberty in Christ. And I'm a cult leader. And people just don't accept that. They want to believe the worst about us. Now, I think the side where we are partially to blame is that we don't teach the traditional orthodox views okay so that's at the source of even recent comments as of this morning if someone going off in anger and the accusation is that you think you sean mccraney think that you've come up with something that no one's ever heard before for 2000 years and that everyone needs to follow you and you're speaking for God.

Like that's the assumption because you're talking about things of God. You're saying it's a new approach and you're saying it charismatically. And the, the problem that I think we might always face is that you don't cater to what people want in terms of your teachings. You do it how you do it.

And so you amalgamate things and present them as you learn them. It's like a personal endeavor for you and you don't want to listen and you and so for you that's and in reality that's being very authentic but for these people you're not like couching it in like I don't know you don't always say like I'm teaching the teachings of this person now I'm teaching the teachings which is true like you do give credit to the fact that you are not original on any of this but for some reason the way you teach it's so personally convicted that they don't hear it that way I think that's a problem

in the communication if you look through the archives though you'll find that I will frequently say I'm not original 100 i know it's just the way the it's part of the charisma thing you like believe it and teach it and there's these boring ass researchers that teach how they teach and they're citing their and and they're more listened to because they remove themselves from it.

And it's like, but to me, like, that's what's so great about what you do is it has such personal stake for you. It's not just a game. Yeah, I couldn't teach it if I didn't personally believe it. And it's the downside of your role in this world and how you're being used by God, I think. If God's using right yeah I have to throw that in because if you don't then oh being you I mean they've criticized me for saying God talk to me in a non-audible inspirational voice once when I was riding my bike I know that

is what's it can be so easily debunked because all of their everything that they believe is also based on people that have said that before. Luther, like was Luther inspired? Like they just pick and choose who gets to be inspired by God or not. Right. And the only time time that they, they're saying that from their own benefit of hundreds of years past that cult leader before. And we've said that before.

We've had episodes where Christ was almost, you could have called him a cult leader in that time. For sure. Yeah. Like that would have been the accusation. He was going against the institution and, and people really hate when you say that like they so I don't know well it's tough but it comes with the territory and I think all those things play into the reason I will say this though that there is an upswing in heat now because some people who within just our own circle of influence friends and associates are starting to who don't know me they don't come here or anything

but they know me through other people they're starting to jump on the bandwagon and I think maybe eschatology futurism end times is lighting that fire under certain Christians to start looking for false prophets. They're jumping on the bandwagon of criticism. Yeah. Of like going, it's not just, I'm, because up until now, it's been almost like, I'm just not going to listen to Sean or something.

And now it's like, like attacking the people who do listen to Sean personally and getting in their kitchen for listening. And it's, it is, it's kind of coming at us and from a lot of different angles and in part that is one of the reasons we're bringing this up today on or tonight on the last uh epiphany show is because we're going to segue into meet sean the baptist from now on out on these shows for our audience and um that is causing some of those people to throw wood on that fire the tattoos the approach sean the baptist what it's so out of their realm of of thinking

but it's so part of my realm of being i just think it's funny i know. And they can't get that. Yeah. It just gets it. It's we come from light years of a different mindset than Christians. They don't understand art and movies and humor. Like there's so much more to this than just I teach the Bible and I'm going and.

And then just, I teach the Bible and I'm going and... Yeah, you gotta understand our culture, how we are as a family, where we came from, how we relate to film and music and art and humor, to understand that when it comes to religion, we see it all as of this earth and no different than an expression of art or music or anything else.

It's just religion that's made up by men and women. And that's why we take it lightly. We don't take God lightly, but we take religion and what people do with it very lightly. Yeah. No, and we take God so seriously. And I think they think we're making light of what they take seriously. Sometimes I do, and I'm learning to be a little bit more diplomatic on that because people's beliefs, I've learned, are really important to them, but sometimes there are things that religious people do that should be mocked.

It's absurd. It's absurd and absurd um that's it what well it's spelled absurd but we say um okay the um okay the yeah yeah it's hard it's it and i this actually came up i think this is what todd todd called in on sunday on our fireside firesides on tuesdays at 2 p.m on sundays and he was trying to say like what about religionists and we should really if in reality we should be looking at them with like sadness like oh that you're in the cult the fact that you think that we are in the cult after all this work and then after hearing this message

when you ask what unity is for and and we say, we care so much about God and just want people to understand him and the best way to do it. And they say, unfortunate. That's their response to that is that's unfortunate. And you're a diabolical heretic.

And it's just, that's really sad that you have to see the world this way and your heart and that is inspiring to me both as your partner and as your dad because um that is the merciful heart god wants us to have toward everybody including the people who in my mind i see like a man or a woman in chains who is being fed a certain diet who is totally insane looking at another family at the beach uh having a picnic and saying you're in a cult yes that really is what it's like yeah and there's something it really actually todd you made me think if you're watching this on Sunday, um, it was right at the end though.

So we couldn't talk about it, but it made me think a lot because us McCraney's have an edge against religionists because we, um, I think we're still kind of, I, I think you've gotten past it, but I'm still like personally like frustrated by them and that i think is only showing my immaturity like that's how you discover your immaturity yeah and and at the core of it is a very serious like we can be like mocking and be like you're so dumb like lds you have no excuse kind of thing because they really don't.

And, and also angry because they put people in bondage. And that's the impetus of when we do speak out is the anger of them harming other people. Cause that's really what they're doing. But that's, that anger is playing their same game yeah they are angry and coming at us and i think the only way we're gonna win is through the mercy not that it's about winning but um and that's what sean the baptist is trying to do and but i think the tone of anger isn't gonna work because everybody's tone is angry right now we

just need the comparison of it's like walking into Madison Square Garden every single person there is screaming at the top of their lungs and then we are trying to be heard like that they're all angry everyone's angry we need to have mercy for the religionists and that's being sad for them. Yeah.

And that, I mean, it just, you don't know how much that warms my heart because I know, uh, at least from my understanding of the scripture and God that you are dead, right? You are dead, right? For instance, I mean, I hope I can bring this up. You have a mother-in-law and she is, she's always said to me very kindly, I haven't had any of these experiences with, with religion.

And, you know, at first I heard, and I thought, well, you know, you're not really listening. You don't have your eyes open, but she takes from it something that people who are like her take from it. And I should love her in that and respect that instead of immediately being like, well, you know, you don't. It takes the mercy.

It takes the love that you're talking about. And we all need that more instead of going into Madison Square and screaming. Yeah. So I'm with you. It is. If we're going to talk about mercy, we have to figure out a way for it to be toward the people that we also think are the abusers and but that's the thing that's hard is we want the abuse to stop like i don't you know so i think we're getting to something where we're just we are having to confront our own message to apologists where they have the same spirit toward like the lds or something we need to have the same spirit

we're asking them to have with the christians yeah i'm saying this to myself because i am angry at the christians so no i'm right with you and one thing that's beautiful about the way that we've been able to do this, praise God, is that we've been able to grow and mature so we can see the history of the development of us as people.

When we, you know, I started off very antagonistic and, you know, getting a, but we have grown in that way on camera and and so you can see literally the material development of our culture as yeshuans and and and so there's actually almost like there's a history of the bible not that we're the bible but there's a history of the people and how they went through different periods in time and And we have done that. We've gone through, well, let's try this and let's do that.

We think that's what the faith is about. You've been a real person evolving in real time and they're calling you a cult leader for becoming a better father, a better friend, a better pastor, a better husband. You're more giving to all the people around you. You're not having affairs. You're not like yelling at people on the side of the road.

Like I cannot, it's just comical. It actually is. Oh, I'm like emotional because it's so hard to read these comments and have these personal friends attack and attack and attack. But the reality is so like assuring. So we don't even have to. Well, I am so grateful that we've recorded this and your strength, your emotion and your strength is coming out because you came into this from academia essentially and you had a very different view kind of of things and you've learned how to trust God more and how to develop

in the spirit on camera and then in in my eyes you've done it and you know that's what we're trying to show we are not perfect we are so jacked up as a family and as people, but, but we're trying, you know, we want to show you what we see as work. Now, all that being said, let me just throw in here. Author Schopenhauer said, all truth passes through three stages.

First, it's ridiculed, just ridiculed. Second, it's violently opposed. Yeah. We're in that stage. And third, it's accepted as being self-evident. Wow. Yeah. And Schopenhauer, who I really respect his mind, said that. So we know that we are going through these phases, right? But now we have to bring something up. And just to touch on it before we conclude, because we want to talk more about this.

And I don't really know how to do it as Sean the Baptist. I don't know how to do it because it is almost borderline us being political. And it's the last thing I want to do is divide even with people I vehemently believe are acting in evil. But even in that, using God's name for evil purposes, I have to, we have to have the heart that we say we accept you and the way you want to see things.

Yeah. How do we then address them, though, in their error? I really think it's critical that we, like, go into it remembering mercy, first of all. Remembering that Christ literally died at the hands of these people and didn't fight back. at the hands of these people and didn't fight back that like yes you could win in an argument with them you could beat them you could beat them in masculinity you can beat them in any and that's the hard thing for you yeah is that you really could beat them and it takes a dying to that flesh because otherwise it's a fleshly engagement to like so

these people are doing evil and what are we going to combat evil with is love let's love them and be like you are misguided and you are damaging the world and i love you and god loves you and there's a better way and like you know i do i just think that will get to the what your heart is and here's the thing i i absolutely principally in the name of god and my searching for him agree with you but introduce to us if i can because you prepared me for something different but just some of the things that we're talking about

Sean the Baptist is going to start to parse from certain movements in the faith I'm not going to say they're of the devil they're not Christian to this I'm going to say they mean of the devil, they're not Christian, they're this, I'm going to say they mean well, I'm going to have a merciful approach.

But I personally cannot imagine what is being done with this sacred faith today in Madison Square Garden from a growing audience whose voices are getting louder than anybody else's. Yeah. And that's the hard part about not fighting back or fighting back with love or something is that they are the loud voice and they're taking over Handmaid's Tale style. So I don't, this is as the phrases like Sean the Baptist gets almost political because it's not political.

It's that they've gotten political at using Christ and we're talking about their use of Christ. Right. So let that be really heard clearly that while we're in going to get into an arena where their use is political, we are not arguing for politics. We're just arguing of their use of christ in their politics yeah like you can be like a communist or a nazi and we can talk about that politically separately but when you say christ Christ is a communist, Christ is a Nazi, then we want to talk to them about the Christ part.

So remind me, are we getting into this more in the next episode? Yeah, but I think you can just prime the pump. There is a lot of rhetoric that... I'm going to interrupt her. I know nothing about this. I was just introduced to this a week or two ago by Delaney. She has her finger on the pulse of all this and has for years.

Honest to God, I knew it was kind of out there, but I did not know what she's going to share with you. And that lit a kind of a fire under Sean the Baptistist yeah so there are some things that i still need to research a little bit to be able to articulate correctly but there's the rhetoric is that the lines being drawn in the sand and you're on one side or the other um meaning there is by christians christians are saying this there's there is this like extreme um what is the word dichotomy or like what i perceive as a false dichotomy being set up

in so many different arenas it's this or it's. It's this or it's that, it's this or it's that. The different versions are, um, liberation theology, or I don't know the other word, liberation theology versus the other. Liberation being one is about liberating people. One is about conforming or whatever.

So these fall into liberal, like one is explicitly like Christ was about deconstructing power, like meaning that's like a like leftist agenda, literally. And so there's a left Jesus and then there's a right Jesus. There's a left Jesus and then there's a right Jesus. The left usually focuses more on Christ himself and the right focuses more on Paul and the disciples after and what they did.

And there's a there's another smaller subtopic of like there's two gospels there's one where um you need to align yourself as a sinner versus you need to awaken what's in you and become aligned with or um like become aligned and like rise up to the spirit rather than conform and die into the sin, get rid of your sin.

That's like a more niche one, but they're kind of related. So there's, so anyway, all of this dovetails into extremely loud, unapologetic voices in Christianity that are pastors and very influential in the current administration and or like even critical of it and like that they're not going far enough this administration that uh you know, Christ is king.

That is the objective of a Christian. It is completely morally just and right. And that we need, in order to love our nation and love our world, we need to get everybody to be Christian because that will get them into their, they're literally doing this out of an idea of love that people are going to be better off if they're christian i see um so there's a lot of talk about church and state the appeal and this is we've talked about christian nationalism but it's just more than that the they describe the separation of church and state as being incorrectly appealed to today

in defense of politics or in defense of the state, when in reality that concept was brought about as defense of the church, because the church shouldn't have, the state shouldn't be infiltrating the church, rather than not the church should be infiltrating the state. So they're justifying the church infiltrating the state in some ways.

And then finally... Men and women's issues? Yes. So that's like the large umbrella that makes them then say the, you know, quotes, the problems with America that we currently face right now. Feminism, Zionism, Muslims, borders, blah, blah, blah. The ways to fix that. Repeal the 19th Amendment. close the borders like get all Muslims out of the country and um whatever like literally like addressing the problem and the way to do it is by forcefully removing the ability for those groups to be able to do things that is the answer these guys are saying things on podcasts like you know the books i let my wife read are this

and that i let my wife read this one book and it's that it uh is saying interracial marriage is subpar it's saying it's it's actually anti-zionist which is like surprising in its own ways that would probably differ with the current trump administration yeah so like there's a ton of bifurcation in all of this and i'm like setting up the polar the polls like a little bit falsely but um and then you know like so there's like they're really strict theological people like that who call themselves wanting to be the general of the

culture war a general in the culture war putting on a conference called Christ is King America after Trump where they've gotten all the most reformed and perfect whatever whatever they're explicitly patriarchal they have no qualms with that raising children I don't know they they that's the problem is they speak as if they care for the children most.

This is all about the children, giving them a nation that they can actually feel safe in. Unless they're different. And be raised in morals. Yeah, exactly. And, yeah, I think that's a. Do you, can you off the top of your head list kind of the main players that you're familiar with? Yeah, there's... I don't care to even know some of their names, but the ones that are forced down my throat when I look at the Internet are Doug Wilson.

Most people know of him. And he's... I'm pretty sure he's like a main advisor of people in the trump administration he's like higher up um in terms of influence and then there's like these kind of wannabe guys of his that are making their own little coalition because they're not at his level and they're coming to social media which is where the dogs play and um with like these quippy little like you know one-liners that state their whole ethos so those guys are dale partridge joel webben um never ever even heard their names i know i don't even know the rest of their names, but they have a organization

called the New Christian Right. Wow. That's the main organization. And then they're putting on a conference coming up where they've put aside their differences as Christians, like their theological differences, because they unite over these state issues and they're trying to address america and what we do now so um i think that's the very long-winded version of describing what i see that's fascinating yeah it's terrifying to me it um it is the absolute antithesis to everything that I stand for as a believer.

But I do believe that we need to try to understand, you know, where they came from, like you said, have mercy and try to engage with them in reasonable discourse. reasonable discourse, but it infuriates me that they use the name of God because most people will believe that's what a Christian is about because Christians have kind of let the world believe that's what we're about. Well, I agree.

I think there's some hope that every person that I see commenting on these is like, you're a right like you're a clown this is insane the world understand like Christianity I think the place that we can feel secure is that they're going to the brightest flames burn the quickest they're absurd like God's not doing, you know, killing off people with floods anymore, but they like it just isn't going to work.

It is not truth. So I feel like we can be confident in that speaking truth for the long term, which is what we've always done. And we have our flesh get in the midst of the shortfall. short term. They're horrific. It's really hard as a woman because you're like caught in this thing where you want to scream at them. But then if you do, you're psycho and you're proving their point.

So like, I really appreciate you as a really masculine figure standing up against it. standing up against it um i understand even their like justifications because they say you know they want correctness they see the world as being up in flames the world is up in flames it's so bad the the tagline is it's christ or it's chaos that's the thing and like to some degree we agree we agree that christ is the thing that doesn't that creates peace right and so this whole thing has to be about how you get it right their prop the issue with them is that they're trying

to get it and it's this apologetic we're coming to the new apologetics i am i'm talking so much right now but the apologetic is the at the core i think of what sean the baptist is going to be doing um because it's like forcing people into faith isn't faith like it will that, faith is the opposite of fear.

Like they're doing it through fear. The fear tactics are absurd, like are palpable. Like that is what, you know, we should be scared of this. What's the most recent one? I'm not sure there's a lot of appeals to the children being damaged though to your question a lot of that so listening to what you've just said to me it sounds like and just clarify where I'm wrong it sounds like we have two central approaches.

One is fear, law, harshness, and less mercy. And then we have, we say, mercy, love, grace. I would set it up differently. I think there's fear. Well, you could say that, but I think there are more people than just the Christian nationalists appealing to fear. Because I think there are some portion of the world that also is on the liberation side the leftist side that's appealing to fear okay fear of these men right so like i think it's really important that we don't use fear tactics you never do right but like um being angry i feel like kind of implies a fear tactic or something so everyone

rightfully so is angry at the louder voices because they're louder they're running the country they're in office right now so they are the dominant voice the the frustration I have is that the argument against it is coming from the same like plane of argumentation so it's just like preference at that point it's like thinking the it's arguing that Christ was a leftist thing and that we should be doing X, Y, and Z with the borders and we should be doing X, Y, and Z with money.

And our point is that it's not relevant to that. Like those things are of this world. Christ had nothing to do with them. Stop talking about Christ in both settings. And like, I get wanting to lean left in order to like combat and how Christ is kind of leftist in some ways. So I get it. And to be fair, you also get why to lean right in the face of some of the liberals.

Like I see exactly why they could, like I think liberals are having to look at themselves as maybe like like allowing like being part of the reason why the christian nationalists are gaining power because people are have been fed up with the liberal agenda as well and i understand that i understand being scared of your children being taken into chaos in the world.

Like that is scary. And so like I get, and so I think it's, it might help to like, we come to the table with each person with like, I understand why you're saying that. Your approach is scary. so messed up like you're really shooting yourself in the foot if in the long term this is your goal right for all sides right so for all sides i think this is excellent and this will be part in parcel of the meet sean the baptist because while we're going to i'm going to work very hard on not becoming angry and not using my flesh and you not using your flesh against it and us to use reason

we want our group to know that we absolutely stand by humility and mercy and love in this world in the name of our of our king and we want to try to figure out how to work with the others to bring more unity instead of loss yeah it's a big task it's hard and i get you using fire and in your presentation and if you do it all power to like, like it's fine. I know, but you're just another, I mean, when I started, I mean, there were people before me, but when I started, the thing was that was entertaining and that played.

But the whole world, now everybody's a, you don't, people are screaming. And I think you even screamed at the start because of a lack of information. You didn't have the information. So it's frustrating. And you want to yell at people and be like, something's wrong about this. And I don't know how to explain it.

You can explain it now. Like you can beat their theology over and over and you don't have to raise your voice once to do it. I'm listening and I am really trying to ingest that because that's the goal. I'm kind of speaking to myself. Sorry, the baby's crying. Talking about that. We got screamers in the family.

That was great. Love you. Love you too. Are we done? We can. I. That was great. Love you. Love you too. Are we done? We can be. I think we're done. Next week, Heart of the Matter. New series. Yep. Meet Shawn the Baptist. New series begins. See you all. Gwiswch ar y llaw Gwiswch ar y llaw Gwiswch ar y llaw Gwiswch ar y llaw Gwiswch ar y llaw