AI-generated summary
Central Claim: Shawn McCraney argues that organized religion operates on false traditions—particularly the notion that the Bible itself is "the word of God"—rather than on direct revelation or subjective faith in Yeshua. McCraney demonstrates from Hebrews that the writer does not define Scripture as God's word, challenging the foundational assumption of institutional Christianity.
Biblical Basis: McCraney cites the book of Hebrews to show textually that the Bible is not presented as "the word of God" by its own authors, undermining organized religion's reliance on scriptural authority.
Yeshuan Perspective: This reflects McCraney's fulfilled eschatology stance—rejecting institutional structures in favor of direct, personal spiritual experience. The episode emphasizes subjective faith encounter over doctrinal tradition, positioning Yeshuans as those who've moved beyond organized religion's institutional constraints into authentic spiritual relationship. McCraney's confrontational approach mirrors what he sees as Yeshua's own challenging methodology toward religious establishments.
Open Transcript
[music]
[music]
Dear friend, if you want to feel better,
don't let the devil make you toss this
letter. If you've been crossed off by
hoodoo, voodoo, the wizard or the loser,
you got family trouble, man trouble,
woman trouble, no life through the
rubble. [music]
You're looking for a true friend or a
true lover. or if you were living
undercover. Well, I'm coming to your
town to break it all down and help you
with all of this. I'm looking to help
you find bliss one day or one way. Can't
miss.
I'm here to tear all the walls down.
Doesn't matter if it's a large town or a
small town. Just like Joshua and the
fabled walls of Jericho, I'm here to
tear down the institution.
But you must tell seven friends. You
must first bring seven friends. And
don't be selfish and keep this all to
yourself. And don't eat selfish. Hate is
trying to take someone else's love for
yourself.
But I'm here to tell you that love is
trying to help someone else.
You need to see me right away so I can
fix this up.
You need to see me right away.
You need to see me right away so I can
fix this sock.
You need to see me right [music] about
now.
And if you are suffering a street
sickness
or someone is blocking up all of your
success,
you need to see me right away [music] so
I can fix this.
I'm sincerely yours and faith, love, and
peace. your friendship.
>> Hello.
>> Hi.
>> Welcome. Welcome.
>> We love old Jack White, don't we?
>> Yes. Hope you like that intro. Sets the
tone. Uh this is Heart of the Matter
Epiphany.
>> Yep.
>> Episode nine.
>> Getting along.
>> Yes. Um, and it's a continuation of the
45 biblically supported reasons
organized religion is over.
>> Yeah. We hope you'll listen to last week
for the first 11 and then we're going to
do the next 11 in a few minutes.
>> Yeah. All right. So, this past week we
had another engagement with a group
called Ratio Christy. Rashio Christie. I
think it's probably offensive that I say
that wrong. Um, let's review some things
that the audience doesn't realize about
these meetings. You all that watched it,
maybe you aren't fully clued into our
intentions. So, let's review it.
>> Well, let me ask you and put you on the
spot.
>> What did you think? Because you've seen
and been part of several of these, but
>> still each one brings something that is
kind of unfortunate to us.
>> Yeah,
>> it's hard.
>> It's extremely hard. Um, I've been at
them live every time in person. First
thing to say is the group changes every
single time drastically. Like the we get
to be in touch with how fast the youth
are changing.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, and long story short, this this
group in particular, it was
overwhelming. They were almost Mormon in
their appearance, mannerisms, like long
prairie dress, sweater, modest, very,
very polite,
>> super happy,
>> super friendly,
>> almost I don't want to say it, but
culty. It was weird. I was thrown off,
but so your banter at the start was
really wellreceived.
>> Yeah. And then you get into the meat of
it with that same fervor, but about
religion and it was just, you guys might
not have been able to see it cuz the
camera froze a few times, but it was
>> just like so offended and so and it was
rude. They were being rude the way that
they were responding to the point where
one person says, "Is this loving Sean
the way you are?" So
>> ignoring ignoring the fact that
>> Yeshua used in deep inquisitive
questions that sounded very attacking on
people
>> and he did everything out of love.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> And please clarify like
>> there's this weird irony perceived in
like you calling out people for being
people that call out others. Yeah.
>> So do you want to explain that? Well,
it's almost like how do, for instance,
how would a police officer
instruct gang members how wrong it is to
go in and attack other people? They have
to get the gang members to think and
they have to be strong with them because
the gang members think they're all down.
>> The gang member is not going to listen
to a police
telling. Yeah. So, the cop has to use
the techniques the cop knows, which
sound intrusive and everything else
non-loving
>> to get the gang member to realize that
they are off.
>> That's the kind of thing that's going on
here. Because if I just talk to them
like you guys just be nice and it
doesn't mean anything and it doesn't
register any kind of emotion within them
to remember what was said.
>> Yeah. It's the whole like tolerating
intolerance thing. Like
>> we have people who are not tolerant
sitting in front of us
>> and how do you get them to become to
like do we have to tolerate their
intolerance or like do you have to let a
serial killer run around and kill people
or do you kill them when you have a
choice? [laughter]
>> It's so difficult you can't imagine. And
the thing that I discovered is that the
tone of the voice
>> is more an indicator for them as whether
you're being loving.
>> Oh yeah.
>> Versus
really what was the content of the
message, what was being said was far
more unloving to their senses, but they
didn't even catch that. So someone who's
been doing this their entire life is has
sacrificed every single part of your
life for this like sits in front of a
group for free, feeds them, gives them
food, spends all your energy as an older
man talking to them, and they think that
is less loving than them looking at a
Mormon and being like, "You're going to
hell." Yeah.
>> Which someone did more or less did to
you afterward just came up and said,
"You're so dark." Like,
>> and if there's anything that is more
like Satan than someone accusing you of
being dark, I don't know what to say.
Like, it was a horrible feeling after.
>> And I said to the kid, "I'm not my heart
is not dark. You're just looking at a
performance."
>> And he said, "No, I can see it in you.
Yeah,
>> the anger brother. I am worried about
your stance before God
>> and that was fascinating.
>> Yeah, it was very hard for me. I
struggled with it after
>> Delaney stepped up and actually voiced
her opinion and it changed the tenor of
the whole thing. I am really working on
myself on how to do this. She is helping
me see that we it's just a very You have
to consider that they are apologists. We
had the kid, one of the kids on the
front row sat down and said, "I'll
debate you right now." That was the
thing that came out of his same kid that
said, "You're being unloving."
>> Yeah. Same kid being unloving.
>> They There's something really weird with
this generation where they were all so
okay with debating, debate, debate,
debate, debate, debate forever because
that's what social media is like.
>> We don't like that. We're like not
trying to do we want to relate with them
earnestly and like have a productive
conversation. They
>> So we think they're being like p like um
difficult I guess and and they think
we're being difficult and for very
different reasons.
>> Yeah.
>> You I thought did a wonderful job. I
thought it was so articulate. I think
there are times I don't think you need
to work on your delivery. I think there
are a couple times where it might get
personal. Like there was a moment where
he called someone a coward and that's
like a name calling. Like I get where
you're coming from.
>> She told me not that I should work on
that and I agree. But to me, if you
don't call a coward a coward,
>> he'll never know he's a coward.
>> Yeah, I'm on of your opinion. I'm just
trying to think through like
>> I appate
>> what where there are times where it's
like if that thing didn't happen maybe
it wouldn't have been pushed into this
like
>> they I don't know where fuel I don't
know
>> this is important because
>> we are learning as we go you know what
else I'm seeing is that you talked about
how quick the groups change I literally
think they talk about concepts and when
each new group comes like they didn't
even bat an eye as who was the Bible
Bible written to
>> they said to to them it was written to
them but it's for us and I said no it's
not and no one even no one even stepped
against that where the first groups they
went ballistic on the importance of the
Bible. Well, yeah. I think I think
there's a lot on the internet now. I
think like we're becoming like there's
almost nothing that anyone hasn't heard
and seen at this point. Wow.
>> But it's
>> making it valid. That's hard to do. Like
anyone can say anything. There's a
conspiracy theory for every single thing
that's ever happened in history. So I
think we're getting to that point where
these kids are really caught up on the
perspectives but not the work behind
those perspectives and what actually
validates. So the yeah it's changed
really fast that the shock value of a
piece of information. But there were
people that were like I've never heard
this before. Yeah, there were we had
four or five who actually changed their
ideas and that represented about 20% of
the whole audience and I so I'm just
kind of asking is 20% I think 20% is a
really good return return on investment
>> huge
>> and then the the seeds planted in the
other kids and there were some who were
ambiguous and there were some who were
outright against me who let us know
>> but it was really fascinating you know
and and in the one instance not to
belabor this too long but the one
instance where um we said what's the
word of God
>> and all almost all the hands said it's
the Bible and we said no it's not and
then one of them said prove that to us
so we did and I saw the lights go on
like three or four faces
>> because they have they were standing on
tradition the Bible's the word of God
and when we showed them from the text
that that is not how the writer of
Hebrews actually defines the Bible I saw
lights So on
>> it was I that was why it was really
jarring to have many of the comments
afterward even from the head of it
himself um to me that
uh because I in the middle of it thought
it was such a great it was one of the
most articulate uh conversations that
you've had with these groups
>> that we took you took a different
strategy than you ever have and I
thought it worked really well and more
points sunk in faster this time than
they ever have. And yet there was such
more darkness after it than I've ever
felt. So
>> yeah, it was really it's it's a war.
It's a war going on against tradition
and the spirit of the risen Christ and
people who are bringing us to love, to
unity, and peace. So keep watching.
That's what's going on with us, by the
way. Oh, go ahead.
>> Oh, you can watch it on the Heart of the
Matter YouTube channel. Sorry. Go ahead.
Um,
I am old. I have a young educated uh I
have young educated daughters. But this
one,
I learned something from her that I
think anybody probably everybody should
listen to when it comes to understanding
something about the tools we offer you.
>> Yeshu.faith
and the app. I just learned this and
this will make so much sense to you. So,
please, if you have trouble
understanding, listen to how Delaney is
going to explain this to you.
>> This is uh if you're maybe
if you're not technologically savvy or
if you're over maybe 40 years old, this
will be helpful for you. Um
there is a website that is our website
and it's yeshuan.faith. When you type in
Yeshuan.faith faith in the internet.
That takes you to our website. That
website has all the information about
our organization.
It's as if you go to ucla.com
or.edu, whatever the website for UCLA
is, and you learn about the school UCLA.
Yesuins.faith is the website that tells
you about what we do. It does not have
the content of what we do on it. Just
like UCLA doesn't have a course on the
website for you to take. You have to
enroll and go to that school and take
the course. Oh,
>> it's so important. I didn't know this.
>> He we So the school uh and the analogy
for us is our app that is available. You
can access that app through the
computer, through your phone, you can
download it all. There's all these
different ways to access it. The app
itself
has the actual content that the website
Yeshuan's.faith describes
>> like the UCLA website. We have courses
in religion and philosophy and medicine.
Yeah.
>> This is our goal. This is our uh uh
approach. Yeah. Like that. So that is a
distinction. The app is hosted at the
website app Yeshuan's.faith.
>> Wow.
>> So, you don't necessarily need to know
that. If you go to Yeshuan's.faith and
you read through it, it will guide you
through to eventually click a link that
takes you to the app and various
different
>> ways you can download it. So, what was
happening with us is I would say,
Delaney, I I I try to look this up on my
app and I'm not finding it. and we had a
disconnect because we're both busy and
she tells me something and I don't
really hear it
>> and it just took us to sit down and talk
about and then she explained to me,
"Dad, this is how it works."
>> So that's why every almost every page on
the Yeshuan.faith
website says,
>> "Do you want the app?"
>> You read all the stuff. Would you like
to go to the app? Would you like to take
the course? Would you like to get the
books? Etc., etc.
>> Yeah.
>> So well done. Freaking that site is
amazing.
Take 15 minutes of your life and go
through the yeseshuins.
Faith app
>> website.
>> It's okay.
>> Just the website and then you will be
inspired perhaps to then download the
app to your device.
>> Right. And and that yeah soft faith
website explains in a lot of considered
detail what we're doing here. and they
we're doing something really
um intentional and it describes it
there. The app itself has forums, it has
social groups, it has courses, books,
shows,
messaging, all sorts of things that you
can do
uh with other people that are also
signed up on it. The website is just an
information like a manual. And so from
now on, I am never personally going to
recommend getting the app because it
confuses. No, it I know it's everywhere.
It confuses everybody 40 and above
>> really. We We get the app and we think
we're looking at everything.
>> The the best thing I'm going to always
say is go to yeshuan.faith
and look at everything we're about and
if you're inclined get the
>> Yes. Yes. Okay. Yes.
>> Got that down? That was for the old
fogies. [laughter] Delaney, put us in 40
and above. Uh, and we'll take that,
>> I would say. I don't I don't know.
There's people my age and younger that
also don't understand, but it's it's
generally more understood by someone my
age.
>> Okay. I think you're right. Now, last
week we embarked on u you know 45
reasons the we can show you that
brickandmortar church is over. And the
first 11 uh were covered the past 2,000
years. And I'm just going to cover what
the past 2,000 years of religion has
been. It's been traditional, objective,
organized, denominational. It's been
religious. It's the Catholics and the
Anglicans and the Lutherans and the
Protestants and Mormons. All expressions
in facilities, brick andmortar
facilities, very lawdriven. Even though
we're in the age of grace, they all
still operate on law. They're masculine.
They're material. They're doctrally
objective. They have practical demands.
They have religious authoriti that they
claim allows them to teach these
doctrines and practices. their primary
collective and participative join up be
a member blah blah blah uh and then that
they they have public worship of song
and prayers people go to the worship and
we we suggest that they are static and
unmovable in their respective buildings
and that they are in the end truly when
you look at it from a spiritual sense
I'm not talking like literally in
intention but in the spiritual sense
They are idolatrous because they all
insert priesthoods and altars and
authority and the Bible and rights and
rituals demands of allegiance between
them the individual and God and we call
that idolatry. Okay. So this this uh
evening we are going to go through the
next 11 and Delaney is going to cover uh
the the what has been and then I'll try
to address what is now and then you can
ask questions or we can banter back and
forth. Okay. So, in the past 2,000
years, uh it was the the Bible and or
human authority was primary.
>> Yeah. And there was a reason for that.
Old testament to the bride in Yeshua's
day was the scripture. It was what they
would resort to that prophesied of him.
So, the Bible, Old Testament in that day
was very important. And then authority
was uh important because the prophets
got their authority and it was passed
down and all that stuff through right
tribes. And then Yeshua, he gave
authority to his 12 apostles, 11
apostles in the end. And so authority
and how to govern the bride and the old
testament church was vital and
necessary. So you read about that and it
looks like authority is still necessary.
There's no authority. We believe that
the spirit is primary in the world today
and has been ever since Christ took his
bride.
>> He rescued that small group in 70 AD
from being destroyed. And as evidenced
by what happened at Pentecost, that
spirit is what governs. And when we use
that with like the kids last week, um we
said, "What's the what's the way you
determine the truth?" And they said a
couple of them the Bible.
>> And we said who interprets the Bible.
>> And you know and they would say some of
them I think maybe and said the spirit.
>> That's our point
>> is that and then someone said well then
what do you do when there's a
disagreement? Well we look and realize
that there are babes in the faith.
They're children. They're teens. They're
adults. And we're all at different
places but the spirit's fruit is love.
>> Yeah. It's a weird thing because they'll
say the Bible is how you know. What did
you say? How you know what's right?
>> Yeah. That's your They have this
standard that is given by men. I I never
knew it cuz I didn't learn it. Like it
is the standard of faith by which we
test all it's some phrase they always
use
>> and uh but it doesn't work. Well,
they'll say because I've heard this a
lot growing up as a evangelical as well
that it the spirit is how you know, but
there's no they don't have a definition
for what the spirit is, right?
>> And if they did, they would be saying
what we're saying, which is it's in you.
It's only individual and it's by love.
Yeah. But because that's the only way
that the spirit could but really what
they're saying is a some sort of person
authority translator commentator
whatever a theologian is actually how
you understand the spirit to understand
the Bible. That's what they're saying.
>> Stuck a man or a woman in between God
again.
>> Yeah. Like the spirit is not there.
Yeah. I don't know what the what any
Christian thinks the spirit is doing.
>> I don't know either. Yeah, I don't know
either. But you know what they say, and
this is the thing that happens
especially with Mormons.
>> Well, if you just go by the spirit,
you're just going to be a Mormon and
you're going to start believing in in
rocks and hats and books and all kinds
of things
>> because there's a very specific
definition of the fruit of the spirit.
>> That's right. What is it?
>> Patience, kindness, longsuffering,
>> love. Yeah. I don't it I don't know why
like I was so resistant to the spirit as
a Christian like it it it does it goes
along those lines of like
>> where what is
>> untrustworthy
>> right but the spirit of Christ that's
the spirit if it's his spirit it will
never lead you to do believe anything he
did not do or believe
>> well ever yeah exactly and it's very
clearly defined like they're acting like
there's no way to know what the spirit
is. It's like there's a very clear
definition
>> and it's biblically based and but from
the mouth of Paul and Yeshua and it's
right there.
>> Yeah.
>> So, but they want to think that the
spirit means
>> I saw God and he's a goat and you can
follow that and that is the spirit will
never lead you astray is how we put it
and will always lead you to selfless
sacrificial unconditional love. Number
two.
>> All right. Must. But in the past 2,000
years, people must do believe and accept
and embrace demands to be forgiven.
>> We faced that on uh Sunday.
>> We had some them repeatedly say, "When I
sin, I go to God. I ask to be forgiven,
and because I do that, he forgives me."
Mhm.
>> And uh you know all people from the
Yeshua perspective because of the
finished work of Christ have been
forgiven of all sin.
Ready? That's outside of their control
of free will. Okay.
Free will is the determining sin that
you are responsible for entirely or not.
>> What are nonfree will sins? Well, we
couldn't spend three hours and describe
them all. We have genetic defects. We
have environmental defects. We have
parents that messed us up. We have
school teachers who harmed our delicate
uh ways. We have society. There are so
many factors to who we are as
individuals that caused us to sin.
>> Yeah. God took care of those factors
because they're all present because of
the fall.
>> Yeah. They we cannot help them.
not going to punish us for not being
able to help them,
>> right? Like, and and that's why we have
such a liberal stance on every sexual
deviency. I mean, I remember my dad
telling me that he had a fetish for
leather belts because when he was a kid,
he was at a moment of some sort of
excitation and his mo his dad's leather
belt fell from something on the bed and
it was coincided with his moment and
then he had this attraction for leather
belts.
>> Wow.
>> We are so jacked in terms of how we're
programmed. God knew that. [screaming]
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> And and did all the work. Like it's not
like it's always been that
>> these sins were covered, but there was a
nation of Israel and there was a hell
and there was Christ and there [snorts]
was a sacrifice and then the wrath
poured out and now it's different
>> by sacrifice of the one who overcame all
the fleshly temptations passed down to
humanity through Adam. It's it's such a
perfect schematic on what God has done
and yet we still want to beat each other
other up for the weaknesses we have in
our flesh. That said though, we all
still choose.
>> That's the hard part. Well, I can't
choose rightly cuz I you know this. No,
God removes all of it. You still have
the ability to decide I want to seek him
or not. that. But that's the the change
that we're articulating is what we have
the ability to decide.
>> Yeah.
>> That Christians get way wrong. Like
>> where the uh locust of free will is in
us is very different from our
perspective than others.
>> Very different. And so what uh Delaney
is saying is that we believe that once
everything has been taken into account
and dismissed off the table of our
failures in our flesh like Paul said,
"Oh wret wretched man that I am uh who
will deliver me from this bondage." He
says, "I thank God Jesus Christ our
Lord. So with my mind I will serve the
law of God." That means from the heart
your own choice but with the flesh. Paul
said as an apostle, I serve the law of
sin. You know, and religion wants to
monitor the law of quote.
>> That's a quote
>> with my flesh. I serve the law of
>> Paul as an apostle. I spoke this at a
Lutheran church and the pastors had a
conclave where they spent an afternoon
fighting with each other about my uh
situation. What I said, it's right
there. He said, "Therefore, with my mind
I serve, and with my flesh the law of
sin."
>> Wow.
>> Can you believe that?
>> That is a big one.
>> Big one.
>> Where is that?
>> It's in Romans chapter 7.
>> Wow.
>> Yeah,
>> that is a big one.
>> Okay. So, uh what's the next the past
2,000 years give us, Delaney?
>> Satan remains in power, continues to
take souls from hell forever more.
>> To hell. Oh,
>> I don't think he's [laughter] taking
many from
one word makes a difference. [laughter]
So, listen, uh, all the kids, Satan is
still in power. Yeah. And and and
Christians everywhere. In fact, a lot of
non-Christians believe Satan and they
still make movies of him and he's still
out there, right? So, uh, thus Satan,
the dark force embodied by others over
time and empowered by the law, has been
utterly destroyed by Christ. That's in
the Gospels before he even died. He says
that it's in Revelation. Absolutely.
Satan is over. What makes that difficult
for people though?
>> Well, I mean, we just experienced it on
Sunday. such darkness.
It's not like there isn't darkness so
>> or evil.
>> Is it just that it's not embodied? Is
that what it is?
>> I think that the the little imp Satan
was destroyed.
>> But
>> I thought that was never a thing. An imp
Satan. I thought that was
>> there seems to have been some and it
transerred over to groups and it
authorities but there seems to have been
an angel seems to
>> that was overcome by his own everything
and fell
>> and and so there is this idea that's
prevalent among Christians. I'm not even
saying it's right
>> but that guy is gone.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. But go ahead. And who like who is
it that talks that tempts Christ?
>> Um well a long story. We're going to get
right to it to make everybody say,
"Okay, we're done with this guy." I
believe it was the nation of Israel.
>> What? [laughter]
>> I said a monkey and orangut.
>> I'm kidding.
>> Just like the garden. [laughter]
>> If you look at the at the Greek, Jesus
was running from a little monkey
[laughter] in the wilderness.
She's saying that because I believe that
the tempter in the garden was not a
snake but was a nos [laughter]
monkey Simeon that had the ability with
its lips to speak and everything.
>> You didn't come up with that though, did
you?
>> No, Adam Clark came up with that.
>> So, it's not just you inventing things.
>> She's clear to point that out because we
don't want you to think I'm more of a
lunatic.
>> No, I It's really valid. But keep going.
So the I believe that the embodiment of
H Satan in Yeshua's day were the Jews.
>> Yeah,
>> that makes a lot of sense. But who
exactly was talking to Christ in that
spirit? Oh, okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, that makes sense.
>> Yeah. And it said, "We'll give you all
this power."
>> I believe it.
>> I that
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, it makes a lot of sense. And
that's cross referenced with the book of
Revelation where Christ himself calls
them of the synagogue of Satan. So, you
know, it's not just something we're
pulling out of nowhere. All right.
>> Yeah. Shoot.
>> So, the next one kind of uh
>> Satan's still reigning.
>> Satan is still reigning. They would say,
>> so we say what caused if there was an
angel that fell, we say if there was an
angel that fell and became the Satan and
tempted Adam and Eve, we say what
tempted him.
>> And similarly, we say uh Eve before she
ate of the fruit she wasn't supposed to
eat, she decided to eat of the fruit she
didn't eat. Before she fell, what
tempted her? What was it in her? And we
say that is darkness with a capital D.
>> And that that has always existed will
forever exist in all creations.
>> And that's
>> like existed
like since God has existed.
>> Yeah. Because where he is the absence of
if he is a presence the absence or
non-presence of him is the opposite.
>> So we say it's non- good. That's how we
categorize the dark. It's a non- good.
means it there's nothing good in it.
It's dark. It's not light.
>> So, we think that thing has a power. We
don't know if it's,
>> you know, that darkness is a being, but
it's a force of death.
>> Darkness. That's what And so that's what
still reigns on the earth today.
Darkness forever will.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
The kingdom of God is spiritually here
waiting to come to earth. That's what
religion has thought for the last 2,000
years.
>> Yeah. And so what they're saying is
Christ had the victory over the spirit
realm, which doesn't make sense if
there's a spiritual being named Satan
still winning. But nevertheless, they'll
say the spirit of God is here within us.
Uh but we are all waiting for the
material kingdom of God to come to
earth. Well, Christ at his return will
come. All the world will see him. He'll
take his reign on his actual throne in a
temple in Jerusalem on the Mount of
Olives. And he will reign over the whole
earth from that material position.
>> And we say that the kingdom of God is
entirely and always has been entirely
spiritual. It's established in the new
Jerusalem above with his pure bride he
took in 70 AD. And together as a
perfectly matched couple, not unequally
yolked, but equal in stature, they bear
forth children, spirit children, not
literally being born, but on earth in
us. When we choose to believe based off
what they did, first Christ and his
apostles and then the bride who was pure
and worthy to come through their
tribulation, that they are the she is
the mother above us all. He is the king
and we are the offspring and that fits
the biblical model of marriage and God
and us.
>> Okay, it's out there but it but it's
pretty apparent if you read about it.
>> Okay.
>> Oh, I think it makes a lot of sense. All
right. There's only heaven or hell. A
person's either saved or not and
reconciled or God to God or not.
>> Right. [laughter]
>> Did I read it wrong again?
>> Yeah, you did. You did that right
>> almost.
2 Corinthians 5 says plainly that God
was in Christ reconciling
past tense the world to himself.
>> Okay.
>> Past tense or present
>> reconcileing
>> the world to himself. No reconciled had
reconciled past tense the world himself.
Yeah.
>> Uh though his son uh has left every
individual free to choose and believe as
they choose. God loves all. So we say
that the afterlife picture is better
described in Revelation rather than the
old school notions of there being a
heaven and a hell.
>> That's the Christian notion today.
There's a heaven, there's a hell, it's
one or the other and you're going to go.
>> And the reality is Revelation describes
the kingdom as being heavenly and
outside of it all those who aren't in
the kingdom. And we say that's the
afterlife picture. I personally, I don't
know about Delaney, tend to believe that
the further out into the realms that you
get in that uh I think that you get into
the dark dark realms and I think that
probably the last bastion of the darkest
realm in that perimeter is probably
earth and I think that this place is
where those who love their flesh and
this life stay and tempt and try
>> people with whatever
>> like it's more of a great it's more of a
a spectrum than it is a you're in or
you're out kind of thing.
>> It's a spectrum. The only in or out is
in the kingdom or not.
>> In the inside the gates,
>> inside the gates of the new Jerusalem or
not.
>> And outside is not necessarily a
terrible place. It's just the place
where those who didn't want God reside.
And I that's how we see it.
>> It's not burning and not burning. Yeah.
>> And there's coming there's a the gates
are open. There's a way to go in and
out. Is that right?
>> Oh yeah. And that's how we describe
what's going on there. We asked the
group last week, can someone receive God
after this life? And the universal
response was no, no, no. But why are the
gates of that new Jerusalem above open
day and night? Is it only for those
inside to come out and come in? Or is it
also an invitation? Because in
Revelation 22, Christ and the bride say,
"Come, come, come and drink freely of
the water from the tree of life within
that kingdom."
>> And so, there's an invitation calling.
And we believe it it calls here. We
believe it calls there. We believe God
never gives up on his human creations.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. So, uh, for the past 2,000 years,
to be reconciled to God, a person must
do a whole bunch of things.
[sighs and gasps]
>> You got to repent. You got to have
faith. You got to go to church. You got
to stay worthy. You, all those things
are part of that Old Testament, old
model that continues out by tradition.
uh but uh you know bottom line to be
reconciled to God a cur a person will
live by and embrace faith that's what
they will do that's how they're
reconciled and they will embrace a faith
that is supported by love
>> so if you find somebody in another
country who doesn't know uh Yeshua yet
and they have faith in God Yeshua is God
with us and they believe in a God and
they love selflessly sacrificially and
unconditionally. We say they're as much
of a Christian Yeshuan as somebody who
knows his name and knows what he did and
walks around uh ostensibly in the same
way.
>> That's how liberal we take that.
>> Does it mean it wasn't Yeshua? Not all
was Yeshua. It was all done by him. But
we live in a victorious age of the risen
Christ. And that is what we are talking
about.
>> All right. Um, in the past 2,000 years,
a person must know Christ both
ontologically and epistemologically. So,
both the details of his actual person,
his birth, his body, his uh whatever.
>> Yeah.
>> Onto like the way he fits in with God in
the flesh.
>> Um, and then epistemologically, which is
his uh purpose and
>> his spirit, his essence.
>> Yeah. And this is the game of uh
evangelicals and Mormons and Catholics
today is they vet you to see do you know
the real Jesus?
>> You know, did you know that he died for
sin? Did you know that he did this? And
do you uh do you know where he lived?
Here's the Bible. This is the story.
Read this. Read that to convert you. But
the fact of the matter is when the
spirit is moving in people for the past
2,000 years in Kazakhstan, in Salt Lake
City, in San Diego, that spirit is
moving people to know spiritually
the epistemological
Christ in them, the risen Christ,
>> which is love,
>> which is love. That's the fruit of that
epistemological spirit in them. And it
leads to that selfless, sacrificial,
unconditional love in them irrespective
if they know there was a man born of God
and live. That's that's important if you
really want to know about what God has
done and you want to know why it
logically and legally and justifiably
makes sense. You learn about him. But in
this day and age, we don't need
denominations telling us what how you
have to know his very name, which they
don't even use. They say, you know, did
you have you said Jesus saved me? How
does that even save you? It's not even
his name. Let So it's so convoluted and
messed up. The reality is it's
spiritual.
>> Yeah. And we do not draw lines. If
someone says, "I'm a Catholic. I'm a
Mormon. I'm a Buddhist. And I believe in
God. I seek him in faith, her in faith,
it in faith, and I try to love because
that's what's on my heart." We say
you're a
>> Yeshua.
>> Does that make sense? Yes, 100%.
The spirit of God in the past 2,000
years was a conditional relationship
predicated on right belief and practice.
>> Yeah, that was everything. That's still
what the damn Calvinists operate by and
what kids in this audience operate by.
>> And uh
>> so
>> I know
>> over so old, so ancient.
>> Does it feel old and ancient to you?
>> Like what are you doing? The spirit of
the risen Christ. Listen, it says in the
first chapter of John, has been given to
all human beings. He's the light that
enters all men. This is what the Quakers
believe that every single person has the
light of Christ in them. We add to that
line because Christ has had the victory
and taken us spiritually back to the
Garden of Eden where we all choose. M
>> we suggest that Christ has been given to
all all human beings and we he resides
in everybody. They don't need to be born
from him above sending it because he has
come into them and then they choose how
to live. That is the meaning of this
life. If you don't want him, he's still
in you. And when you die, you will not
go to that hellish place. You'll go to a
heavenly realm outside the kingdom where
you have the opportunity to come to him
if you hear the call. what that entails.
I have no idea.
>> I think believing here is really
important in the human scope, but I
can't tell you why.
>> Um, okay. Past 2,000 years, believers
uh thought that they were the bride.
>> Yeah. We just five months ago, we had a
kid sitting here and say, "I'm a I'm the
bride."
>> You know, uh we are not the bride. Not
even close. And we could go all into
that. We've done it before. We're not
going to now. Um again, the bride was
taken, rescued, vetted, tested, tried to
the new Jerusalem above in 70 AD. And
then after that, God through the Roman
armies obliterated all of Judaism
>> once and for all. For people to say
they're Jews today is not correct. There
is no Judaism officially on the earth
today.
You okay? [laughter]
>> She mocks my condition.
>> It is hot.
>> She mocks my sad.
>> I don't mock. I feel sad.
>> I got the vitamin C burp.
>> Don't take a bunch of vitamins before we
record.
>> So listen, this idea that the nation of
Israel continues on as a literal people
with 12 tribes with their genealogy is
ridiculous. that whole all those
genealogies were burned up. You go over
to Israel, every person I know who's
been to Israel says it's chaos.
>> Everybody's there preaching a different
thing. They're in absolute chaos. The
Muslims have the Temple Mount. All the
sending money to Israel for Israel being
Israel is a joke. It's politicized. We
are not anti-Semitic.
>> Not anti-Semitic. I love the Jewish
culture,
>> but there is no nation. It's so
interesting that just the sheer fact
that they don't have the temple mount
>> Yeah.
>> should suggest something like
>> like the amount of human will that has
to go into taking it
>> to get God's will to happen for them.
Like don't you think if it was God's
will he would make it happen for them?
Like it's so no one looks at the
evidence of what actually exists as a
sign.
>> Christians as well like
>> and you know what Christians are doing
over here? They're talking about the
mythos of they've got a red heer because
it's described as prophetically is
happening for them and you know all this
stuff you know uh and and so we're so
pro- Israel because it unites us under a
biblical edict which is law-based
uh patriarchally based and it keeps the
faith as a tool in this world instead of
true in this world.
>> Right.
>> Yeah. I mean it's the same with
Christians not looking you you make the
point of the evident or the evident
existing condition of Christianity is
everyone has a different there's a
billion denominations all this stuff
like
>> but yet we still think we have to like
figure out the one like why can't we
just look at the condition and then go
from there
>> same thing
>> yeah these cycles repeat themselves and
there's only one more
>> the idea that we are the church Yeah.
Uh, we are the children of the bride,
Yeshua and his bride, who's the mother
of us all, who operate from the new
Jerusalem above. It's entirely
spiritual. It always has been. And uh,
the spirit is who convicts. The spirit
is who heals. The spirit teaches us all
things. And the spirit is the one Christ
promised to leave his apostles not
alone. I will send my spirit. And that
spirit is synonymous with the spirit of
Christ. It's his literal spirit having
once been a human being. God with us,
the God man king. The God man king
spirit is here and it's abiding in all
some very very very small amount others
much more. And so we are not the church.
The church was taken. Let's get rid of
that nonsense. We'll stop playing church
if we do and we'll move forward.
>> All right. How have we done on time?
>> We are at 45 minutes.
>> Good. These are good, appropriately
timed shows. We're going to do the next
segment, the next 11 next week. Any
final thoughts?
>> No. Watch the uh Rashio Christy debate
on the Heart of the Matter YouTube
channel.
>> Yeah.
>> If you want.
>> All right.
>> To see [laughter]
>> what we did.
>> Thank you. again. [laughter]
>> Jeez Louise. Sorry. I am not built for
this, guys. All right. Love you all.
Thank you.
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