The Cancer of Christian Nationalism in the Body of Christ

The Cancer of Christian Nationalism in the Body of Christ | Heart of the Matter EPIPHANY

Transcripts:

We're live! Olé! Cinco de Mayo! Cinco de Mayo 2026! Welcome, this is Heart of the Matter, seventh series called Epiphany. Yep, and tonight in show 18 it's the cancer of Christian nationalism in the body of God's family.

We are not political and we won't be. And this is as political as we'll get. Hopefully it ends politics. Hopefully it ends politics in the faith. Spoiler. Yeah. All right. But quick teaser. We next week, we will spend the first five minutes showing you what we've been working on behind the scenes a lot of updates there's been updates over the years but this feels like the culmination that's really starting to work tune in next week if you want to see what we're doing and especially in preparation for this fall with our sean the Baptist events. Yes. And let me tell you something about Delaney.

She could discover the cure for cancer and she'd say, next week, tune in and we're going to tell you about something that we've discovered. She's very, very humble in her approach. There's no boasting, but I'm going to tell you something. What this kid has done to bring forth a tool for us in this ministry is mind-blowing you've got to check it out next week just the first five minutes of the show tune in and you're gonna say whoa this is really really cool yeah so it's like we went from the horse and buggy to the model T bottom line.

Yeah. It's really bringing, I do think it's gonna, we're starting to level up a little bit and being able to get your work known to people who haven't heard him and without having to listen to hundreds of hours, you know, so, and without having to listen to hundreds of hours, you know. And without having to worry about false information.

We have some really great stuff to show you and it's going to be available to you free starting next week. All right. But let's move on. Before we get into Christian nationalism, we have to talk about one little thing yeah i want to talk about the foolishness of material artifacts that zealous believers want to hook their teeth into uh to bolster the faith and it's been around forever.

Things like back in the day of the early Catholic church, they would sell pieces of a cross, so much so that they probably sold enough wood to build an ark. I mean, it's just, this is what humans do to bolster faith and people who are weak in their inner faith love to flock to these signs and these things.

And I just want to tell you, you know, I don't care personally if they discover Noah's Ark or the Ark of the Covenant or the cross. It doesn't mean anything to me because the internal faith that you create by and through seeking, studying, humbling yourself, willing to learn, willing to, it far transcends the moment of seeing the Shroud of Turin, you know, and, you know, just across the street, I think they did this tour of the, uh, at a church, the Shroud of Turin and people are, it's real, it's real. And they pretty much have shown it's a fabrication.

Why is this important to us? Because Hebrews 11, 6, it is impossible to please him without faith. Faith is not a certainty. We don't have a bunch of certainties around us. All we have are things that we choose to say is evidence for the faith we possess. Yeah.

And I just think that, you know, like the Catholic Church and Orthodoxies and some of the more zealous Christians, they're really big on statues that bleed and cry. statues that bleed and cry you know the they go to lords for the miracle of the three girls out in the field and by the way the butcher boy is a great uh movie that mocks the crap out of this kind of uh thinking uh images of christ that appear in a guy's toast or on the side of a lamb out in the field you know the shroud of turin endless miracles of healings ah we know that they're healed i want to if they're going to really use that i want to

see it yeah and i'm not going to even say i believe in god because of it yeah because we could have miracles from things in this world that we just don't get. Yeah. Yeah. So all the rest, that's my thing I just wanted to talk about right now. Why do you take this stand so hard? Because it's material proof for something God doesn't really give us.

Yeah. He just doesn't stick his head out of the clouds. Yeah. Yeah. I see what you're saying. It's akin to that. And so Christians often and other religious people try to get close to these things to prove materially that we're really legitimate. And I just, I think they stand in opposition to what God wants from us.

And that's to literally believe on him in the face of things we see as normative evidence rather than miraculous evidences so to be clear like your work you do you do like evaluate material based on its credibility or you'll like experience something in the world.

So, so do you give any credence to any signs or material things? I do for an individual. And so if I have an experience that I hold up as significant in my life as evidence of God, that's for me. And you will have those for you and other people. But when we make them the go-to for a collective, first of all, most of them are phony. That's the first point.

And even the ones we think are real and seem real are phony. So Noah's Ark is one that's bugged me forever. And they keep trying to say we found it and stuff like that. And the archaeological digs, they don't support that there's a God. They just support that there was a people who believed in a God. Yes, yeah.

Yeah, it's this kind of thinking that we have to try to help believers get away from and just start to say, I believe this because the evidence I've seen support it, and I'm not seeing those evidences or proofs. Yeah. That's why it's important to me. Really, you know, I see so so much I'm involved in Christian atheist Debates and it's always just the never-ending Conversation of perspective.

Yeah, it's just how you see something someone sees it one way and we We are taking the approach of like staying in our lane. It's like faith is faith. Like claim it, that it's faith. And stop saying that you know and that this other person needs to know for that reason. And I really liked that phrase staying in your lane because if we have like a Southern California six lane highway, we can have a Jew, a Catholic, a Muslim, a Mormon, all in their lanes and they believe like they want.

And We can have a Jew, a Catholic, a Muslim, a Mormon, all in their lanes and they believe like they want and we can have an atheist in their lane and we say, have at it. Yes. You have points. Yeah. You know, there's no reason that you can't, you have to be dismissed because your perspective make a lot of sense in this world too yeah like you're trying to take the logic and the method of supporting an atheist argument to be for christ too yeah and it's like that doesn't work like let that's a material argument right it's a separate thing from a spiritual like let's let them be separate's let them be separate

yeah let them be separate not kind of like feeds into the christian nationalism argument too it does in my opinion like the separation of these things is what feels so like um wrong to christians right it feels wrong to like let an atheist have an argument that's a material argument that contradicts right if the shroud of turn didn't exist then it contradicts the whole thing like it becomes this if there's no if the ark if noah's ark didn't exist what do we do with the whole thing right and that's why people will say well what do you think is it young earth older

i don't care and people say well how could you not care we had someone say how would you not care because our we are basing this on a selective personal subjective choice of evidences that we hold dear for there being a god and we give everyone else the right to do the same God and we give everyone else the right to do the same.

It seems like those who cling to these things are babes because like the more you're able to say that out of a confidence in the work you've done, you've done so much work, you stand strong on your faith and you're able to say it's faulty. They're like, I'm not, I don't know for sure because of how much work you've done that's right and you bring up such an important thing because you have a connect a correlation between it's typically the babes who run to see the shroud of turin and get all excited about it and it's the babes who don't have the roots who get swept away when the Shroud of Turin is proven wrong yes this is the problem with our teaching the way we have Christian kids

all the dogmas we've given them and then they leave mom and dad and they go to college and college is really well let's talk about this and then the kid is just blown away so we're trying to say there's a better way to prepare ourselves with a mindset that doesn't include all this hocus pocus. Yeah.

This has been the goal of your ministry the whole time with, you know, it's babes who were Mormon and then leave Mormonism and say, God isn't real. Yeah. That's a babe. That's like Mormonismonism doesn't own god right come on like it's an atheist or it's a big it's a babe atheist who says god isn't real because my one religious experience became proven false right like it's all the same logic as proving the whatever yeah so we're looking to get people who are willing to be seasoned and reasoned and things because you'll even discover that atheists, as they get more and more exposed to atheism,

become more open about, well, I'm not so sure about all. And it's the zealots. Yeah. Zealots versus seekers. Yeah. That's really the difference. That's the point. So you guys out there making 10 billion videos about your zealous stances on everything. Dude, you're missing the point. Yeah. Okay. Okay. With that, we want to get into a subject that was Yeshuaans decry and denounce and have denounced almost since the start of this ministry really like you've been saying this forever um and that's people using the name

of christ for political reasons yeah uh vomitus you wrote a book decades ago called if then i'm gonna put it on the screen oh Oh, it perfectly covers your face. Perfect. Well, that's where it should stay. We don't need this mug on screen. Sorry about that. You can get it at shop.yeshuans.faith. You wrote it so long ago, and it's as relevant as ever.

But let's talk about the idea behind that book, If Then, for a minute. Because you have some unique views of what needs to be added to this conversation. All right. So my stance as an older guy who loves the Bible and all that, I look at the scripture to see what is taught. And when we look at the Old Testament, total theocracy. Old Testament theocracy.

We get to the apostolic record. We have Yeshua come, and before he goes to the cross, he has a conversation with Pilate, who's sentencing him, and he's trying to find out a reason to sentence and sin. And so it says, then Pilate entered into the judgment hall again and called Yeshua and said to him, are thou the king of the Jews? This is in John 18. Yes. John 18, 33.

And Yeshua answered him. And I love this. I just love this. It's one of my favorite lines from the mouth of the king. He says to Pilate, who's going to kill him do you see this thing of yourself or did others tell you this about me oh my gosh wow that's so good i love that that is the christian anarchist yeah i don't give a rat's rear end what what power you have pilot and pilate answers and says am i a jew And Pilate answers and says, Am I a Jew? Your own nation and chief priests have delivered you unto me.

What have you done? I mean, I just love our king for that. And Yeshua answered and he said this line which caused us to write this book. My kingdom is not of this world. If my kingdom were of this world, then my servants would fight. Okay, it's right there.

And then he adds in context for him and what was going on, that I should not be delivered to the Jews but now my kingdom is not from here and Pilate answered him and said art thou a king then and Yeshua answered and this line is tough in the King James because it says thou sayest that I'm a king but what it means is you've said it right buddy you've got it right and he says to this end was I born and for this cause came I into this world ready that I should bear witness unto the truth everyone that is of the truth hears my voice his kingdom's not of this world if you're of the truth you hear his

voice and so those who are saying they hear his voice to battle for him and to fight are not in harmony with what he taught oh my gosh a lot to talk about so explicit yeah yeah we had a caller call in and we say this and they almost like malfunctioned they They like glitched out.

They like the structure of the sentence even is confusing to them. They can't understand that this is said by Christ. It does not compute. Yeah. And so what they do is they extrapolate the general message of, of Yeshua, which is to stand for good. Extrapolate. So we'll talk about that. All right. When we examine the body of the apostolic record, as you have so much, as is shown in this book you wrote, Yeshua never promoted political action from his apostles.

Right. He evidenced the opposite. Yep. He said, refusing to be made a king. Yeah. He ran and hid when they tried to make him a king okay uh render see see render unto caesars what is caesars someone gave him a coin and said do you pay tax he says some says you pay tax he says give me a coin he says whose inscription is this insane give the caesar what caesesar can you to those two examples can you say what christians besides extrapolation how do they answer those two things how do they do you know what they say to that i don't know it's insane they would say something i mean if we're just

going to make things up yeah oh he wasn't supposed to be a king then but he's supposed to be a king now yeah uh we're supposed to pay, showing that our involvement in paying taxes, we should be involved in how to pay taxes because we're supposed to render to Caesar. What is Caesar's? So, and before we keep going, the conception that Christians have of the second coming is a material king, is it not? Absolutely.

So like, not only do they think it's political, but their, their conception of what Christ is going to do is completely opposite of what he does. Completely. Like it's not a material king. Yeah. And so they take that my kingdom's not of this world and suddenly they just say it is and every one of them do it mormons do it catholics do it they all do it yeah he's going to come back and reign over a material kingdom right and that is why eschatology is so important to understand him and what he's done which is i've never thought about this, but in the moment I'm realizing the Jews did that.

We are critical of Jews because we're like, they didn't see it. They wanted a material Messiah, but it was actually a spiritual Messiah. They didn't, and they killed him and we're mad about that. we're doing the same exact thing about his second coming and we're doing it now more and more in the way that the jews did it by putting people to death if they disagreed with them and imposing a martial law on people insane yeah we are doing the same thing good point okay so um so you have a point about Ephesians here.

Yeah, let me read it, okay? So, aside from what Yeshua, you just pointed out, he said, I'm not going to be your king. My kingdom is not in this world. Render to Caesar what is Caesar's. And he never, nor did any of his apostles say, get involved politically. Never. Any of them. Ever. Okay? Okay. never any of them ever okay okay so how bible reading christians justify this idea of being involved politically is one they extrapolate they myth make they don't understand eschatology they don't understand his kingdom is spiritual it It always has been. When they read in Revelation that every tear will be dried, that's a physical thing to them.

So they see this world as being a place where all of our tears are dried and we have nothing but joy and happiness here. So because they've missed that, it's all spiritual. OK, and then we get to Paul. And what does he say now? I don't know how Christians answer this either, but let me just read it.

He says, as to the rest, my brethren, be strong in the Lord and in the power of his might. Okay. His might is inner. It's spiritual. It is not political. All right. He says, put on the whole armor of God. He's talking to them now as warriors. For you're being able to stand the wiles of the government, those who persecute you. No, the devil in that day. Because we have not the wrestling with blood and flesh.

I wrote this in the, I put this on my notes from the YLT, so it's a little less clear than the King James. Yeah. So he says, we don't wrestle with flesh and blood. What are Christians wrestling with today? Flesh and blood. And we have, since Bonhoeffer tried to kill Hitler, we've tried to do it through Constantine making it an empire. We don't wrestle with flesh and blood but with the principalities and with the authorities, with the world rulers of the darkness of that age. Now the world rulers of the darkness of that age were Ha-Satan.

rulers of the darkness of that age were ha satan that is who you're warring with with the spiritual things of the evil in heavenly places how does a christian war with those through prayer through faith through love it is not material and he says we don't war against flesh and blood we don't even go out and protest against gay pride parades.

We're not at war with them. We are trying to talk about spiritual. And the thing about it is here, those spiritual powers in dark places are all overcome by him now. So even this is anachronistic because he's had that victory. So we're not even warring with that in reality. And he says, because you take up the whole armor of god that you may able to resist the day of evil which is uh when the roman empire was going to come in and take him apart and all these things having done to stand stand therefore he tells you how to do

it as a believer paul in that day having your loins girt about with what? Truth. And having put on the breastplate of righteousness. And having the feet shot in preparation of the good news of peace. Above all, having the shield of faith. In which you're able to stand the fiery darts of the evil one to quench and the helmet of salvation receive.

And the sword of the spirit which is the saying of god through all prayer and supplication praying at all times in the spirit and in regard to the same watching and all perseverance and supplication for the saints and in behalf of me that you may begin be given in the word in the opening of my mouth in freedom that you may secret the good news which i am ambassador of the chain okay so he goes on and on so listen none of that describes political action in the material it doesn't describe voting politics citing against the world powers policing

evil none of it it's not part of what christ brought i know know I'm emphatic, but I've been on this soapbox for decades. And what do all religions do? They want to bring it in and materialize goodness in the world through Christ, through political action. And it's a cancer. Okay, so for the record, are you against supporting...

government or politicians as a citizen or as a personal Christian? No, I again follow what Paul said. He said, be subject to those who are put in power over you. Am I against Christian people voting? Not again, not at all. You're a citizen of this world as a person. Just because you're a Christian doesn't mean you can't vote be vote and get involved if you want but don't use his name don't bring him in as the one to lead your cause because what it does is it cause people who differ with you politically to hate him

and we have done that forever and what it does is it eradicates a complete segment of society from what are typically the conservative Christian points of view. The conservative Christians, they govern Christian nationalism. They are the power behind it.

Therefore, anybody who's not a conservative Christian is alienated from Christ by virtue of their rhetoric. That is a problem for me. And I am all for fiscal responsibility and I'm all for, you know, good laws and stuff, but you're never going to hear me say Jesus wants us to anything, anything. Okay. Well, let's keep going. What, what, what are Christian nationalists looking to if, if they have these new Testament Apostolic Record things that debunk it? What are they looking at? They look at, they conveniently take the whole Bible. And when you see the Jews working under a theocracy and that they had a judeo-christian ethic by which they governed

they go and they hearken back and the calvinists are big on this mormons are pretty big on it they hearken back to that and they say we need to structure our government under the same way as they did in ancient israel completely they take the whole bible yeah but they don't take the whole bible to see that like the point of their new Testament is that Christ ended. That's right. That yes. Like they don't do that done with. Yeah.

They play a game. Yeah. They go back to the law and they say, yeah, but the law was for a certain practices for morality and we haven't gotten rid of those. Not not a bad thing yeah okay so that's the extrapolation um that i want to like dig into more yeah because and i kind of want to like ask you and discuss the um i guess like the argumentation of Christian nationalists, because it's not a logical to some people.

No, it's very logical. I think it's logical. Yeah. And it's, but it's not biblical. Right. And that's our whole argument. It is biblical though to them, to them. So let's like work through it a little more. The extrapolation is, is that, well, first, before I get to that, Christ, they use the argument that Christ was, uh, political, I guess, by like going in and whipping and doing angry things in the name of righteousness too.

And why, how do you argue that? to and why how do you argue that okay well you got to compare apples to apples when Christ went in he didn't go into Rome and go after the emperor he went into the community of Jews and their central hub the temple to clean his father's house. That was not political. That was religious.

So it would be akin to the Pope going in and throwing over all the money changers in Catholicism or the Mormon prophet going in and getting rid of their God awful, gaudy, uh, material expressions down in North temple. That's the context. That's not political. Yes. So he didn't go, he didn't fight a Roman soldier. He didn't bring an insurrection against the law.

He submitted to the Roman law to put him to death. I mean, nothing they say, nothing they say is justified by the life of Christ. Right. Sorry, I watched your microphone. Oh, sorry. I get impassioned. To quickly insert the other argument. Yeah. A perhaps like liberal or anarchistic Christian would suggest that Christ was going up against power.

And he was there to liberate people. And it's a leftist argument sort of so it's also not that i would it's also not that because he did go against power but what kind of power yes religious power so we're always making this distinction that like religion is its own thing especially in that time it is today too but like if you're gonna read the bible and reference it like the whole idea is that religion was like this separate little economy that the jews were called out group that god worked with and there's like the whole rest of the world right that he

didn't work with right and christ solves that little problem yeah within the small economy that was going on and it supposedly solves it for everybody should have like that is the perspective here yeah so power and uh violence or anything that christ went up against was within that little tiny context.

And that's it. That's it. So that's this perspective. Is that right? That plus we use him as the model to how to do the faith. Okay. Let me tell you something. If he came and said, start an army and war against the world go against the pedophiles and the all these things and establish my kingdom I would do it yeah but it's not in there at all and that's a quickly insert for anyone who's new that's watching this they would say apostles did want everyone to go out to the world all these like rules for how to do church

and stuff so what's your answer to that he told the 12 to go out into all of israel he didn't it says the world it's it's the gay it's the area again the greek is important and he didn't say go out and and change them politically because he he came and he said go out and share that i rose from the dead i am the good news i am the one to go to that was the news they shared and he also let them know that you're going to die doing it and he didn't say you're going to be saved god let them be martyred for it. The other message that's central to what

Christ taught for all of his believers, where is allow yourself to be persecuted and to suffer in my name. That's something that kingdom now dominionists have all rejected. They have rights. We have Christian rights now. Yeah. we got to get to that yeah we will get okay keep going though that also so it's not world is not world that's a big one no it's not world and all the other things i have to do is fulfill theology which you teach which is like um that they're the bride yeah it that stuff was for that time yeah and it's not it's not today so

that's answered in other segments but okay so the extrapolation then of i just want to use one case in point here yeah since we're on this one of yeshua's relatives john the baptist was wrongly put in prison because all he did was call out a a roman procurator uh and and he was beheaded for it and and i mean if that happened today in any country of the world and a christian heard about it yeah we would be fighting for that person holding them up yeshua didn't do anything about it nothing yeah he would have rebelled if we're

supposed to fight he let john lose his head yeah what do we think we're about i'm sorry i'm so impassioned by it no it's so true and yeah christians do not even acknowledge the simple fact that jews are different than romans in the bible i know. And like, like you read, like Pilate is like a Roman. Yeah.

Like, who are you? I don't even know who you are. Like, why are the Jews talking? Like, you know? Yeah. Definitely. And that's the context. They ignore that. Okay. And that, yeah, that's the context. I've never really thought about that of christ being like to the roman uh representative being like i'm not even talking to you guys if my kingdom wherever this world like pilot you don't need to worry about me yeah that's kind of what he's saying yeah i'm not a threat to you i'm a threat to these other guys exactly christ is making that

and that's such a good point though though, because Pilate could see that. Yeah. He knew he was being tooled by the Jews. Yes. And yet he was out of fear for them. He gave them what they wanted. Yeah. His own wife said, I've had a dream. Don't do this, man. Yeah. You're making a mistake. Yeah. And Pilate ended up a miserable suicide in the end.

Right. Yeah. miserable suicide in the end right yeah so you know the the christian nationalists have no biblical basis from a fulfilled perspective of christ and they have to agree with that yeah to do what they're doing none i don't even know if they don't believe in fulfillment i don't know if Christian nationalism is arguable still.

Oh, no. Even forget eschatology. Oh, yeah. It is not arguable in the least. Yes. Like the whole Christian, the churches of that time and what they were doing were completely a separate project from what politics was doing. Yeah. That's all. So, okay. Extrapolation then into the logic of Christian nationalism, which is, first of all, we literally had someone say it doesn't matter if Christ says it or not.

Right. So that, like, all the logic you just gave doesn't matter to them. Right. It doesn't matter if Christ was about that or not. The argument is that why wouldn't you want this? You're a Christian. You believe in good things that Christ brought. Why would you not want your nation to be a safe place for you to believe that? Why would you not want it to be educating your children that way in the schools? Why would you not want it to be educating your children that way in the schools? Why would you not want to fight jihadists that want to take your country? And

we are actually saying all of those things, we should just allow it as Christians. So what I'm saying and what you might be saying, I don't speak for you, but for us, first of all herman hess the great thinker wrote because something is good does not mean it's true okay adolf hitler did a lot of good it didn't mean he should have been followed and just because something promotes good mormonism yeah does not make it true which christians would say they would say that things but say that. They do good things, but they're evil.

That's right. They can see that. So the rationale that they're using to argue is already wasted. It's foolishness. Goodness. Yeah, the goodness argument. So that comes back to teleological life in this world. Do we do what best serves this world, or do we deontologically live and do what God says? I want to do what God says.

How do I know what God says? I read what he says in the scripture. What happens in the scripture? Yeshua had nothing to do with politics. I will do that. And that's what Christians should do. But we have, we don't give an F about that. We don't give an f about that we don't care we care about our world and our comfort and our religion and our rights and it is the most pathetic example of being a christian in my world there's no suffering there's only battles there's only getting might makes right it is so anathema

to the heart of our king i want to spit in the face of all of it. That's how virulently I'm against it. So we'll get to this point that what is the point of being a Christian? Which was literally asked of us in this conversation. It's like, why even do it if you don't believe in making things good in this world they can't even understand that do you remember what came out of your mouth right when he said that to have a relationship with god yeah and i think you said or someone said to suffer because it is you're suffering for your faith so yeah what so answer what's the point of being a Christian?

It's not to be of this world. It's, that's why the bumper stickers are so funny. Not of this world. Yeah, I know. It's by the most worldly people you'll ever see. The most worldly people say that. They wear the t-shirts and all that. But the fact of the matter is we should be known more for what we're for and about as Christians, not for what we're against in this world.

The reason that we're fighting for what we're against in this world is because we love this world as Christians. We want it to be something better than just what Christ offered. And he doesn't. The real discipleship walking with him is one of suffering where he says, you got treated unjustly today, didn't you? How are you going to handle that one? I have rights.

Yeah, I think you're slipping away from what I taught you. And we've done that collectively over 2000 years. So, so there's two ways. ways one is that Christian Christianity is about a social group oriented objective to make the world better materially right that's what Christianity is yeah yes you ends I guess what or whatever this I think we're calling it the yes you an approach would is completely opposite it is it has nothing to do with other people it's you learning how to suffer for the uh to align

and have a relationship with God, which is about suffering spiritually. And it has, there's no other person involved in that. There's, so what do you, how do you address like worship or communal? Any, like, how do you address all these things? They're not even involved in it. Men make it up in order to have a collective to then have power to then have more money to then have more influence in this world and it always goes to that when you materialize the faith it always goes to men authority brick and mortar

power money growth size strength and it turns into a nationalistic movement. And that is why God never intended it to be that way because the nationalistic movements are never right. We don't know who to follow. Yeah. And it has to be mentioned that they weaponize suffering.

They inflict it and they say you should be suffering while they don't. So suffering is involved in their rhetoric, but in completely the wrong way. One clarification toward you, because I don't think you meant to, because they'll use a sound bite against you if it's just left that way that it doesn't have to do with anything, anybody else.

The suffering does have to do with others because it's in our love for them that we suffer. And it's... Yeah, that's how it plays out. The suffering comes through interactions with other people and loving them. That's where suffering comes from. That is true. It's just not a collective It's not a collective work to commune with God collectively. It's an individual experience and plays out with you and another person, not you and a group of people.

It's how you love this one person right in front of you. So what's the point? What's the point of suffering? What's the point of doing it this way? There's a very clear point and a clear selling point for Christian nationalists. Like we're going to make the world better for you.

Why wouldn't you want it? There's no way to sell this, this perspective. Really? The only way for me to sell it is that's what God said. I don't know any other way to sell it you wouldn't say it gives you any sort of peace or it causes a lot more trouble it does it give you liberty it gives you more liberty but at the same time it challenges your personal liberty as a human citizen because as a human citizen you have liberty to live in peace in this country.

So you have to decide, do I serve that and fight against invading countries? Or am I going to be someone who goes before a Muslim or some other person who wants to kill them and say, take my life. I do this in Yeshua's name. So it becomes, there's a liberty of our citizenship in this world that I don't touch. That's up to the individual. in this world that I don't touch that's up to the individual but why we do this is to be disciples of the king and we become sons and daughters of the son of God and what does that look like well what did it look like in his life how did he embody and play out being the son of God the

dude died on a cross they you say that to one of them and they do not they don't get it address it that's because they're more of this world than of that we are fighting for the deontological rightness of the scripture in the name of Christ in this world and we are saying we don't we don't denigrate your want to make the world better through laws do it do it have at it fine we don't care but our objective as as followers of of yeshua are not that yes and never should be that it's to decrease yes die to yourself so to answer the the, scary, worst-case scenario question, what if America is taken over by jihadist, anti-Christian, going to kill all the Christians ethic?

What do you say to that? That's what they're fighting. Bring it on, mofo. Bring it. And you'll think he's crazy. No, I'm not crazy. I'm a disciple of my king yeah and they said they're gonna kill you if you go to jerusalem he says i'm going we don't walk in fear it go and then we also have to say if that happened god has allowed it exactly god's allowed it and does that really stop your children they're so scared about the kids like does it really stop your children? They're so scared about the kids. Like, does it really stop your children from being able to know God? Right. If a Muslim runs your country? Right. Like,

is that, is your faith so weak that you need the government to be teaching your children? Exactly. Like that's, it's insane. It's based in fear. Yeah. Yeah. And they use that fear That's the same rhetoric they use for any alternative group that has access to your Christian children. They're going to sway them.

Don't they have faith that God will lead them and that their children do seek God? I mean, if you let this homosexual do something, they're going to sway our children. That's been the thing. That's why they killed Socrates, because he was swaying the youth of Athens. Bottom line, we trust in a higher God.

We say, oh, learn from him. What do they have to say? Oh, you have a Muslim history teacher? Wonderful. What are you getting from them? You have a Baha'i this. We don't do that because we want to govern our material world. This is where we have it wrong. And we've stood on this and we will stand on it because look at where we're at today we haven't even touched haven't even freaking touched it no we haven't we haven't touched some of the arguments that have been thrown out to which are like supporting israel because they're the only ones that allow christians it's like what are you

talking about actually that's not true i know it's like, what are you talking about? Actually, that's not true. I know. It's like so backward. Yeah. They are the most anti-Christian people. Yeah. You can't like come into their country as a baptized Christian. It just, yeah, it's all backward. And this is not to be anti-Jew.

No. The whole point is that Christians do not understand that this straight and narrow or whatever, the narrow path is because it's so undesirable. It is the hardest way to live. It's the best. I think it has an argument for it that would make the world better, but it's just so hard that people are compelled to ask, why would you do that? And Christianity has twisted itself to make itself about God wanting the easy things for this world. And it's just not true.

No. And if God wants the easy things in this world for his children, then he's going to have easy children. And he's not going to have children who can withstand the trials of faith. So what Delaney's saying is like, you know, you really want to follow God, walk in faith. Try that for a while. See how hard that is.

Yeah. Try walking without doing anything. Yeah. Try that one. Try that one without doing anything. Yeah. Yeah. Try walking without doing anything. Yeah. Try that one. Try that one without doing anything. Yeah. Yeah. That because isn't that what Christ did? Yeah. It is. And the works, just to address it, faith without works is dead.

What are the works? The works are love. And here's a really important point Delaney's bringing up. The love we share manifests not in sharing the truth. That's never part of what Paul says love is. It doesn't say love is sharing the truth. Correcting someone. Correcting someone. Getting revenge. None of that ever.

Making sure they don't go to hell. Teaching someone. Yeah, making sure they don't go to hell. It's none of that. It's peace, love, joy, long suffering. Against these these there is no law that is the fruit we should be bringing to the world in every scenario every single scenario but we in every single scenario we bring the opposite yeah and here's the other thing almost all major groups religious groups do this almost all major groups, religious groups do this.

Mormons are pro-militaristic, total, all evangelicals. Catholics are a little bit more shaky on it, but most of us are Christian nationalists. All the things that represent national, like the word nationalist, it seems like it's just synonymous with religion. There are religious Muslims. Those are the ones that are trying to do the deleterious things in the world.

There are really devout, good, loving Muslims that get that it's not about them. There are Jews, same thing. There are Christians, there's Mormons, same thing. Those are yeshuans yeah i have a solution let's take the most radical christian nationalist christians the most radical muslim nationalists the most radical and put them in a ring and let them kill each other and whoever wins they get to do their little fiefdom over their own little small group the rest of us this is what what Sean the Baptist is about,

is if you love God and walk in faith, let's love each other. Yeah. That's what Christians should be doing. That's all religion is, is fighting over which one's better. And everyone knows it. They do. Everyone that's not in religion knows that about religion. Yeah. But, you know, it obscures God so much. The clerics and the scribes and the scholars and all the barbarous warlike people who want to impose their religion.

religion and theocracy on the earth keep rising up and they keep getting followers who fear for their own bank account, their own house and their own land and their own family more than they care about the world. We keep sequestering up into these battlegrounds and we've done it for 2000, we've done for 5,000 years. It's time that Christ changes that.

If you're a christian nationalist you are being manipulated by the thing you fear most which is fear you're being manipulated completely by both your pastors and your government absolutely by fear it's only fear that makes you need to control the whole world yeah through your ethic yeah like it your ethic about god yeah you're fearful that god won't handle it yeah himself fearful god this god you believe in wiped out nations in the past so let me come back at you with the standard response well we're just supposed to do nothing the answer the answer is the difference between the spirit of this world and the spirit of God yeah right you're supposed to do the much harder

thing right which is be patient with the person in front of you that you're fighting that's so much harder for these people yeah than it is to go fight because they're doing the valiant hard thing they do they're doing the easy thing it's so easy to go fight for Be kind. They think they're doing the valiant, hard thing. They do. They're doing the easy thing.

It's so easy to go fight for your nation. I'm sorry. It's just ridiculous to say they're suffering. Yeah. Well, that's Christian nationalism. And so where does it, how long have we gone? 51. 51. So where, kind of the basis there's American national Christian nationalism and there's worldwide Christian nationalism yes and in America the standard response is our founding fathers uh were Christian yeah and therefore because they founded our country on christ we therefore are a christian nation yeah and i just want you to know that is categorically untrue

you know they'll say it's no it's not no it's not look at thomas jefferson they call him a christian he was a deist he did not affirm the divinity of christ nor his resurrection. Same with Thomas Paine. He's the most radical, openly critical of institutional Christianity. Benjamin Franklin, he was a skeptic.

He loved the moral Christ and his teachings, but not a salvific relationship through him, through the resurrection. Ethan Allen was an outright deist. He wrote a book explicitly against Christianity called Reason, the only oracle of man. And then George Washington and others always considered to be Christian, but they were really theistic rationalists.

So we got to stop allowing that to go on as the basis. Were some Christian? They were. as the basis were some christian they were but not there's there's argumentation that the separation of church and state people argue right now is for the protection of the country that it's not and and christian nationalists are saying it's the opposite it's that religion is protected from the state getting involved in it and now that's the rhetoric on like religion is the priority of these founding fathers, not the country. Right. And that is the big one that I get from people

close to me. They say, if we don't do something, then the Christian faith will be squashed by the liberal hand. Exactly. Yeah. Or the muslim hand or whatever you know that the uh rhetoric from doug wilson who say who lists or his whatever little people minions list the main problems are muslims are uh women are liberal all the liberal agendas, abortion, all these things, the way to repair them is to have Christians take over the government and repeal all of those things.

That's right. Take women's rights away. And so the liberal agenda is antithetical to the faith to them. It is. So how do you answer that? I'd say all those arguments that he has are the very same platforms that caused Adolf Hitler to get the power he had. He was against salacious theater. He was against alcohol. They don't have a problem with that.

They don't mind being aligned with Nazis. So that's not an argument anymore. Okay. Well, if that's not an argument, then we've really lost ground. Yeah. When we can justify our behavior as Christians, as, as, uh, okay. Even if it sides up with the approach of any totalitarian group. We're there. Yeah. Yeah. So what do we do with that? I know.

There will be a delineation and there would be those who say, I follow Christ and no other man, no RK, but him. And I will not be involved in church and state matters. I will not use my King to better my life and pad my bed with more straw. I am going to follow him and what he said, what he did alone. That's why I'm a disciple.

follow him and what he said what he did alone that's why i'm a disciple if you want to follow him in this world and use him you have that right the only response we can give is love that's the only response we can give to anybody so we can't treat them differently how can you be of Christianity being squashed as a as a structure I can be okay with it because in the Old Testament after God established the law and priesthood through Moses they got so bad and so messed up there was one guy left of the

whole nation precedent for it it's not unprecedented that christians don't exist anymore and if if that happens who is the one who really allows that him god lets it happen where's our faith yeah yeah people people think that the logic is like people make it happen right god's will right that's i think that's the core of all we're his arm here he relies on us yes that is the core the core is that we have we can strong arm god's will yeah and in the world and in this flesh perhaps we can but that's not what he wants

he wants what his son did yeah because we he gave us will that's right what he wants. He wants what his son did. Yeah. Cause we, he gave us will. That's right. You can make anything happen in this world. That's right. That does not mean it's God's will. It doesn't make it right. Yeah. It doesn't make it true. And this is our point.

Do you want to be true? Do you want to be according to what the scripture actually says and does, or do you want to follow what men do? And that is this big it's endless. And that's why we have the chaos we have right now. Okay. So to be clear, though, we have no problem with an individual who has Christian values voting in a certain way based on those values.

Is that right? That's up to them. Yeah. And so Christian nationalists might argue that that is the movement, is a bunch of individuals trying to do that same thing together. The problem is they hold up the cross. Yeah. And they call it Christian nationalism. Yeah. Hey, look, there is no Christian nation. There's no Christian nationalism.

There's no Christian race, gender. There's no Christian sexuality. There's no Christian music. There's no Christian clothes. There's no Christian government.'s no Christian music there's no Christian clothes there's no Christian government we do not have a Christian president yeah I don't care what any of them say I'm not talking about anyone specific I'm talking about all is no such thing as a president president the only president we could possibly have who would be a Christian would be Christ. Yeah, yeah.

And he ran from that. Yes, yeah. So get away from that stuff. Yeah. I hope all of our supporters who are very, very patriotic, who love this country and everything else, they listen to this seriously because you're having to choose what do you love more, this world and your life here or the king and what he wanted yeah that's how I put it and we don't once again it's not a problem with how you're voting yeah it's not saying vote liberal no it's not like or conservative or concern it's not it's saying vote

as a person not as a Christian Your Christianity is enacted in your relationships. That is the extent of your Christianity. And people cannot untie your participation in a system as where your relationships are. You know, like my relationship with you my father is a political thing for them right then it's just not true no and the other thing to that too is well I am a Christian just between me and the wall I'm not voting using Christ's name, but as a Christian, I care about the rights of the children, the unborn,

and all the suffering in this world because I care about humans because I am a Christian. Therefore, I side with the group that feels like I do on these issues. The question I always come to in those issues, as I understand the justification for the thinking, but what did Christ truly teach and stand for? Was he against abortion? What did he really do? And when we pull back and we look at him alone and what he taught, you have to, I don't care how passionate you are, because I'm passionate for children too, as a human on this earth, but it doesn't matter how

passionate you are for that goodness. You have to let God's way reign. You have to let his approach to it work instead of your own. And this is where we're in trouble again right and to be clear god's way or what christ demonstrated is not even talking giving any even lip service to these things but loving that person yes accepting them yeah touching them yeah being near them when you're not supposed to be. Right.

That's all he did. He didn't say you're doing wrong, you're doing right. No. He didn't commend it. No. The liberal agenda is also way off. Yes. It's not, this is not saying that. No. It's saying it's a separate thing where God's will is love. Yeah. What Delaney is actually bringing forward here to me is really beautiful is that we don't find the solution to this world in the conservative end or the liberal end no we find it with him it's a really frustrating part of um i'm controlling it from my phone now here uh of the argument because everyone's coming back at Christian nationalism with a

liberal agenda. And it's not, it's equally, and I don't blame Christian nationalists for being like, this is problematic. You want our kids to be educated with X, Y, and Z instead of this X, Y, and Z. It's like, it's not about educating the kids. That's the, that's the point. It's a left, right switch to top-down of like, let's make it grassroots individuals.

And since we're talking about this, let's be clear, believers are followers of Christ. Do you know where the real message of God and Christ and truth comes from in a child's life? Their parents.

It comes in the home yeah it comes with mom and dad you know your kid can go to a liberal school and learn all kinds of things and if they have parents they respect and love that is going to be the central thing that moves them through this life so we really should be talking more about male female relationships marriage family and not things that are a danger to them, just what works for them, and that's him. Yeah, which many of these groups have co-opted that as well.

Oh, yeah, big time. Maybe that could be another show. We'll talk about that next week and all the other things that have been hijacked in the name of Christ. Because family doesn't necessarily just mean mom and dad either. We need to talk about that. Yeah, it doesn't mean man this, woman this, children this.

It means a lot of things. So we'll talk about that. It's a good one. Nice primer on the topic. Thanks everyone for listening. We'll talk to you soon. And remember next week, really major revelation for you guys who love the ministry. Revelation. All right. Woo. Bye-bye. Bye. We'll see you next time. you